Master / slave socket query

[zxc987]

I'd appreciate it if answers are in layman's terms please!

In my home I have four phone points. The master is in a ridiculous place up near the ceiling in a cloakroom in the hall. My phone is currently plugged into a slave in my living room. However, it's an old rotary phone and doesn't ring in any of the slaves, as only the master has the ring capacitor. I tested it in the master and it works, but due to the reason stated, leaving it there permanently is not an option.

Can I simply swap the master and the slave round? Is it technically possible to just swap the actual sockets (i.e. the exterior bits on the wall) without having to put extra wires in the walls? I've just finished decorating and really don't want to start knocking holes in the walls.

Or is there an adapter I can buy? I've seen 'ringers' that plug into the slave, then the phone plugs into the ringer, but the sound is emitted by the ringer and not the phone - I want the actual phone to ring. I ask as I used to have a US phone plugged into a slave, and the US-to-UK adapter I'd bought for that had a ring capacitor built in so the actual phone rang.

Thanks!

 

[tomy]

the extension sockets should make the phone ring if wired correctly , terminals 2 and 5 make the phone work and terminal 3 needs to be connected to make the phones plugged into the extensions ring.

 

[zxc987]

the extension sockets should make the phone ring if wired correctly , terminals 2 and 5 make the phone work and terminal 3 needs to be connected to make the phones plugged into the extensions ring.

I haven't got a clue what the terminals are, but thanks for the reply! As far as I knew the kind of phone I've got never works in a slave (it didn't in the last couple of houses I lived in either) - I don't know if that's just some weird wiring error that's following me everywhere I live! I've just always had to plug it into the master but that's so impractical here.

Based on your suggestion, am I safe to phone up someone to come round and do this for me?
(The only reasons I haven't called an electrician yet are a) I don't want to sound like a moron asking them to do something that can't be done, and b) I don't want to waste their time / my money getting them out to look and then realising it can't be done!)

 

[Paul_C]

This is something which is easy to check yourself.

Remove the lower plate at the NTE5 (master jack) and the jack at the secondary position, and check that the wires are connected at each end. The standard coding is:

2 = Blue/white
3 = Orange/white
5 = White/blue

These are the three terminals which need to be connected together to provide both dial tone and ringing at the secondary jack.

 

[zxc987]

Thanks, I suppose it won't hurt to take a look myself and see if it's obvious what's going on. At least I know it can be done now!

 

[zxc987]

This is driving me crazy now.

I finally got an electrician out to sort out my slave socket. My telephone now rings when it's plugged directly into the socket in my living room, which it didn't do before. Hurrah!

Except... it doesn't ring when it's plugged into the adsl splitter, which I need as I have wireless broadband. Nooo!

The wiring in the socket is correct now, so I'm stumped. Why will my telephone still not ring just because of the splitter? Any suggestions as to how I can fix this problem properly?

 

[Atilla]

This is driving me crazy now.

I finally got an electrician out to sort out my slave socket. My telephone now rings when it's plugged directly into the socket in my living room, which it didn't do before. Hurrah!

Except... it doesn't ring when it's plugged into the adsl splitter, which I need as I have wireless broadband. Nooo!

The wiring in the socket is correct now, so I'm stumped. Why will my telephone still not ring just because of the splitter? Any suggestions as to how I can fix this problem properly?

because you didnt mention BB - the splitter is the capacitor, get the sparks back.

 

[Lectrician]

Should still work though - a filter takes the 2+5 only (look at the plug, only two pins).

I would suspect a dodgy filter.

 

[Atilla]

Should still work though - a filter takes the 2+5 only (look at the plug, only two pins).

I would suspect a dodgy filter.

the two pins - wireless are they?

 

[drgl]

Should still work though - a filter takes the 2+5 only (look at the plug, only two pins).

I would suspect a dodgy filter.

A SIN complient one does, plenty of cheap imports pass the ring wire straight through(which in this case would help i think!). The problem is likely to be the capacitor in the filter unable to give enough current to make the old type phone ring. IIRC old phones were REN 1? Modern phones are a fraction of that. Also, this old phone is likely to be pulse dialing, how many exchanges support that now or will continue to?

 

[Paul_C]

The problem is likely to be the capacitor in the filter unable to give enough current to make the old type phone ring. IIRC old phones were REN 1? Modern phones are a fraction of that.

I'm wondering if the phone was ever converted for higher impedance ringing. In the GPO days ringers were typically 1000-ohms and wired in series. When the 431A jacks came into use, the system changed to 4000-ohm ringers connected in parallel. The modified higher-impedance ringers resulted in a REN of 1.

If we're talking about an old 700-type phone it might have had a new cord fitted and the straps changed internally for operation on the new system, but without any modification to change the ringer impedance.

Plugged into a "proper" jack and fed via the 1.8uF capacitor that might not be a problem, but the ringer capacitors in some of the cheap DSL microfilters are lower value. The lower impedance of the ringer coupled with the lower value capacitance could easily result in no audible ringing on the phone.

Also, this old phone is likely to be pulse dialing

If it's a rotary dial it would have to be......

how many exchanges support that now or will continue to?

Some cable and VoIP boxes will accept only DTMF dialing, but all regular POTS lines on system X, system Y (a.k.a. AXE10), DMS100 and other switches still accept pulse dialing.

I'm not sure about BT's 21CN rollout though. But if they do stop accepting LD dialing, there are going to be problems with some older auto-dialers which are still in use.

 

[bernardgreen]

I have seen rotary dial phones modified to have the bell across wires 3 and 4. Sockets were then wired such that terminals 3 and 4 were in series with each other. Dummy plugs provided with pins 3 and 4 linked to keep the series chain intact.

This was a "copy" of the original bells in series wiring that was the normal way before sockets were brought in to use.

The capacitors in micro-filters are able to pass enough AC ring power to ring 1.5 REN of high impedance ringer. They are likely to be unable to supply enough power for a 1000 ohm mechanical ringer unless it is mechanically adjusted to the optimum most sensitive setting.

 

[Lectrician]

Should still work though - a filter takes the 2+5 only (look at the plug, only two pins).

I would suspect a dodgy filter.

the two pins - wireless are they?

Ehh?

UK ADSL filters have only got the 2+5 populated with pins in the plug. The filters have their own cap to provide ring current to the OUTGOING socket on the filter.

 

[Infidel]

Ah those N diagrams
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/conversion.htm
http://www.britishtelephones.com/pstconv1.htm
the 500 ohm bell coils will need replacing with 2 kohm
Still got a couple of sacks of 700's Knocking about in the garage must get them on ebay.

 

[Atilla]

Should still work though - a filter takes the 2+5 only (look at the plug, only two pins).

I would suspect a dodgy filter.

the two pins - wireless are they?

Ehh?

UK ADSL filters have only got the 2+5 populated with pins in the plug. The filters have their own cap to provide ring current to the OUTGOING socket on the filter.

yes but the extention socket still has its cap. in situ and connected to the incoming - hmm?