Max safe wattage for R50 downlights in lath+plaster?

[KevDIY]

My living room has a lath and plaster ceiling, into which are recessed some old R50 sized eyeball down-lights. The current bulbs are a bit dim so I was going to get some higher powered eco-halogen replacements.

The lights themselves specify 40W max, but does anyone know if I'm safe to use bulbs right up to the full 40w, given how close the wooden laths are?

Thanks,
Kev

 

[delmel]

its rated at 40w because that is the max rating for the lamp holder which i expect is plastic.

R50 downlighter WHY ?

change to something better

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The lights themselves specify 40W max, but does anyone know if I'm safe to use bulbs right up to the full 40w, given how close the wooden laths are?

The rating of the fitting is relevant to the fitting, not the fabric in which it is installed.
I doubt very much that a 40W lamp would create any potential fire hazard to laths.
To light the room up sufficiently, maybe it would be better to look at the design of the lighting, regarding placement and luminance.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You need to install fittings that are suitable for mounting on normally flammable material. Look for the ‘F’ mark.

(letter F inside an upside down triangle)

 

[KevDIY]

Thanks very much for the thoughts everyone.

Yeah, I agree these old style R50 downlights aren't the best choice, but their installation is what I've inherited and I'm having to make do for the moment. So thanks PrenticeBoyofDerry - its reassuring that you wouldn't expect 40w to be a problem. Taylortwocities, I'm sure you're right that it would be best to upgrade the fittings to F-rated ones, but in the mean-time would I be right in thinking theres no actual requirement to do that, as it was probably not around when they were installed?

The lights themselves are metal but don't have any info on an F-rating, hence the OP. Looking around I can't see F-ratings for any current R50 stylee downlights for comparison either. Many GU10 types seem to be F-rated at about 35W though, so I guess a safe bet could be to go for 28W eco halogen R50s with supposed 40w equivalent output.

I would 'like' LED bulbs, but they seem very costly in the R50 style so perhaps not a wise investment. Upgrading to dedicated LED downlights looks no more expensive and would probably be better, if/when I have the budget.

Cheers
Kev

 

[Taylortwocities]

If you'll pardon a personal question:

How big is your hole?

 

[ericmark]

I looked and this LED version is £6 which is not that expensive.

However I would not expect it to give the spread of light required. It is possible these bulbs at same price would give a better result as likely will give a better spread of light.

There seems to be something wrong with sizes. Both claim equivalent to 40W but the R50 is 4W and 250 lumen and the candle is 9W and 450 lumen it gives size as 39mm x 125mm where R50 is 50mm x 82 mm and R50 has a longer life reading data.

If I had another location I could use the candle bulbs I would give them a go first and see what they look like and how much light and of course if they will physically fit. But if no where else they will fit then play safe with R50.

 

[KevDIY]

If you'll pardon a personal question:

How big is your hole?

The holes are about 105mm diameter, though they aren't nice perfect circles so sometimes a tad bigger. I think unfortunately this would need an unusual GU10 or adaptor/converter plate of some kind. Though the edges are very crumbly, so a plate may be a good idea in any case, were I to replace them

Cheers
Kev

 

[KevDIY]

I looked and this LED version is £6 which is not that expensive.

However I would not expect it to give the spread of light required. It is possible these bulbs at same price would give a better result as likely will give a better spread of light.

There seems to be something wrong with sizes. Both claim equivalent to 40W but the R50 is 4W and 250 lumen and the candle is 9W and 450 lumen it gives size as 39mm x 125mm where R50 is 50mm x 82 mm and R50 has a longer life reading data.

If I had another location I could use the candle bulbs I would give them a go first and see what they look like and how much light and of course if they will physically fit. But if no where else they will fit then play safe with R50.

Yeah, thirty degrees seems very tight, unless they mean either side of the beam rather than total - maybe the tight/concentrated beam may be why its brightness is deemed equivalent at only half the wattage. Would be convenient not having to deal with new lights and smaller cut-outs though.

I think I've had it with small compact fluorescents, unfortunately. I've got/had several of different sorts but all the physically small ones seem a bit limp and many haven't lasted as long as expected either. If I were to go for more costly bulbs at any point then I think it would be be LEDs these days. A bit £much for me at the moment though; I have several lights so it soon adds up.

Cheers
Kev

 

[JohnW2]

Yeah, thirty degrees seems very tight, unless they mean either side of the beam rather than total ....

No, it means total - i.e. 15 degrees on either side of the midline - very much a 'spotlight', rather than a 'floodlight'. It's those sort of beam angles that have got downlights somewhat of a bad name in some circles (excuse pun!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[KevDIY]

Thanks John. That certainly is far too narrow for my purposes then.

If I do go with LEDs at any point in the future then it may be better to swap to GU10s, there seems to be much more choice of bulb for those - and cheaper too, which should cover the cost of new (and better) lights.

Cheers
Kev

 

[KevDIY]

Just as a small update: I got some 28watt eco-halogen R50 bulbs and they seem pretty decent; their stated '40w equivalent' is believable, and whilst thats not spectacular its enough for my requirements.

I have a loose floorboard upstairs and found that I was able to reach one of the eyeball spotlights in the ceiling below. After it had been on for some hours, the central part of the light (that holds the bulb and swivels) was reasonably hot to the touch but not too bad - not too hot to keep my fingers against. The outside part of the light that sits against the ceiling was much cooler, I'd even say warm, rather than hot.

So thats quite reassuring, at those temperatures I struggle to imagine these bulbs and lights setting fire to anything (unless there were some sort of fault). I wouldn't actually choose to install this type of thing myself, but as they are already there I'm content enough with the new bulbs not to have to rip them out and deal with the large cut-outs.

Thanks to everyone who helped!

Cheers
Kev