L
MH17
- Thread starter securespark
- Start date
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I can't prove my point so I will just use an emoticon.
The Ukrainians haven't handed over the air traffic controllers tapes though, perhaps it is taking longer to tamper with them. I also find it odd that the US was claiming to have evidence within hours of the plane being shot down but since the black boxes have been handed over for the best part of a week we are hearing nothing of cockpit recordings.
A lot of things don't really add up and we are being spoon fed selective information by the media . Look wider and there are several things that are not reported in the MSM , Ukrainian fighter jets close to the airliner , and recent deployment of AA rocket batteries by Kiev despite the so called rebels having no aircraft?
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when you say "things," you mean unsubstantiated rumours spread by the state-controlled Russian media?
As opposed to our own completely transparent impartial news reporting?
I don't fully trust either side in this but neither do I take American propaganda at face value.
I don't fully trust either side in this but neither do I take American propaganda at face value.
Could also be said it is a natural move to supply those tanks to defend themselves against any possible , sorry actual Ukrainian assault in the Donetsk area.
And this would be a Ukrainian assault on a city which is part of the Ukraine,, not Russia ??
So we're supporting a regime intent on attacking its own population? Ukrainians attacking other Ukrainians just because they happen to speak Russian.
Wasn't saying that at al Ladylola. The situation in Ukraine is (as near as damn it) civil war. Russia has no jurisdiction over what happens there, so shouldn't be supplying the dissidents/rebels with arms in the first place.. (although war is always good for certain countries economies)
Fair enough , I agree it is as good as civil war . You are correct in that Russia has no jurisdiction but then so has no one else. The Russians have been quite restrained in this affair in my opinion when I compare it to other conflicts of a similiar nature . They haven't given air support or direct military help whereas if we look at for example Iraq or Serbia the west had direct support for breakaway regions in the form of air strikes . We bombed Serbia against the kosovan Albanians and prevented Iraqis airforce movements against the Kurds both actions in support of a province in revolt against the legitimate government. And let's not forget the US supplied weapons to afganistan rebels otherwise known as the Taliban when the legimate government asked for assistance from the Russians .
Nothing is crystal clear in international politics .
Nothing is crystal clear in international politics .
And fair enough back LL. With all the rhetoric coming from the Kremlin though, I think we have to tread carefully, before Putin turns off the gas tap supplying the West.
I must admit if I was Putin I'd have turned the taps off a week ago.
Putin's Russia has been supplying light, medium and heavy weapons to the pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine, as well as training and vehicles and soldiers without insignia.
It is generally accepted within and outwith Russia that he maintains an arms lengths relationship with the local warlords in order to have deniability.
The separatists have shot down several Ukrainian planes already. Not denied, they boast of it.
So we have established that they shoot down planes when the opportunity arises.
Having seemingly recalled the missile launchers back to Russia after the attack, Putin now claims that he has no knowledge of Russian arms or personnel in the murder of the passengers and crew.
If necessary, I am sure he will put the blame on the rebels, even though their commanders are from the Russian forces and might or might not have resigned from active service before taking up their Ukrainian postings.
It is generally accepted within and outwith Russia that he maintains an arms lengths relationship with the local warlords in order to have deniability.
The separatists have shot down several Ukrainian planes already. Not denied, they boast of it.
So we have established that they shoot down planes when the opportunity arises.
Having seemingly recalled the missile launchers back to Russia after the attack, Putin now claims that he has no knowledge of Russian arms or personnel in the murder of the passengers and crew.
If necessary, I am sure he will put the blame on the rebels, even though their commanders are from the Russian forces and might or might not have resigned from active service before taking up their Ukrainian postings.
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