Neighbour refused permission for me to paint her fence

No the neighbour can lawfully allow her concrete over the boundary just not above ground level. Same as when you build a new wall to a outbuilding or extension or similar along the boundary. The foundation may go beyond the boundary but the wall can not. You are not permitted to dig the ground at ground level but you can undermine it.

I'm really confused now....for example, she has put in a load of blobs of concrete supporting some posts at given intervals which, subsurface, are on your land. You then(hypothetically) decide to exercise your right to build a wall that needs a strip foundation and your external face will be bang on the boundary.....what happens here??? How can you excavate to set your foundations with her fence and her foundations in the way?
If posts were simpy pressure sunk into the ground then fair enough, but on land like ours to get a fence bang on the boundary you'd need to hand dig each hole which means always disturbing part of your neighbours land in the process. If you cannot put in the boundary fence or wall of your choice then her fence is obstructing you.....

Maybe if you like the fence you should cost up the materials, assess the condition and pay her to essentially share the responsibility from now on, with each side your own responsibility.
If she says no then you have no other choice than to .......I've deleted what I was going to put.....some people like this are just so thick they can never be reasoned with!!!!
 
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I fail to see why she is being narky.
Yes but you don't have the benefit of knowing the ins and outs of this relationship do you, for all we know the OP is a complete nutcase.

We could maybe assume that 50% of the threads on here started by an OP whereby they have a neighbourly dispute are the perpetrators. :!:
 
If it's on her side then I would tell her that you don't like the ugly brown and there are two solutions. Put a higher fence up with the top yellow and pink dots as previously said or paint your side of her fence. She is being completely unreasonable, if you offer to clean up any drops that permeate the fence that she can then see, I fail to see why she is being narky.

It's not in anyone's interest to further inflame the situation - doing so could prove costly in the long run. Neighbour disputes have to be declared when selling and can make it difficult to sell/affect the price.
 
[quote="freddymercurystwin";p="2797227"We could maybe assume that 50% of the threads on here started by an OP whereby they have a neighbourly dispute are the perpetrators. :!:[/quote]

I can't believe that's the case. It's only people who have a fair sense of play that would come on here and ask for a second opinion. So assuming that's the case then i would say it's the third parties who don't behave with any morality?
 
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if the fence is very near the boundary line i would double check for even the slightest infringement (even the area around the posts) onto your property.

btw - have you any idea why she hates you?
 
Just paint her fence when she goes on holiday next...then when she returns home just deny it :LOL:
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What's she going to do? Take the OP to court?


As for informing potential buyers of disputes, unless she does something "official", does it count as a "dispute"?
 
Just paint her fence when she goes on holiday next...then when she returns home just deny it :LOL:
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What's she going to do? Take the OP to court?


As for informing potential buyers of disputes, unless she does something "official", does it count as a "dispute"?

Yes, she could claim the cost of having the fence repainted to the colour she wishes it to be. A small claim is straightforward to do, doesn't cost much and can be done without legal representation. She could go further and obtain an injunction to prevent the OP interefering with it.

A dispute doesn't need the involvment of lawyers or Police or courts or any 'officialdom' to make it a dispute. The relevant questions in the TA6 (formerly SPIF) cover it:


2 Disputes and complaints

2.1 Have there been any disputes or complaints regarding this property or a property nearby? If Yes, please give details:

2.2 Is the seller aware of anything that could lead to a dispute about the property or a property nearby? If Yes, please give details:

3 Notices and proposals

3.1 Have any notices or correspondence been received or sent (e.g. from or to a neighbour, council or government department), or any negotiations or discussions taken place, which affect the property or a property nearby? If Yes, please give details:

Law Society TA6 Specimen Form
 
Just paint her fence when she goes on holiday next...then when she returns home just deny it :LOL:
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What's she going to do? Take the OP to court?


As for informing potential buyers of disputes, unless she does something "official", does it count as a "dispute"?

Yes, she could claim the cost of having the fence repainted to the colour she wishes it to be. A small claim is straightforward to do, doesn't cost much and can be done without legal representation. She could go further and obtain an injunction to prevent the OP interefering with it.

Angry neighbour : How dare you paint my fence!!
OP : I didn't paint your fence, I know it is your fence and I am not allowed to touch it. I thought you did it.
Angry neighbour : Yes you did paint it, you did it while i was in benidorm last week.
OP : No I didn't.
Angry neighbour : Yes you did.
OP : No I didn't.
Angry neighbour : Yes you did.
OP : No I didn't.
Angry neighbour : Yes you did.
OP : Prove it.
Angry neighbour : errrrrrrrmmmmmmm
OP : Oh by the way, you are not allowed on my land so don't think about trying to paint it again.
 
In a (faintly ridiculous) situation like that, if the owner of the fence took the OP to court, judgement would be reached on the balance of probabilities. The patch of mismatched paint, the admission by phone (which possibly could be evidenced from phone records), any photographs the neighbour has of the situation with 2 fences in place would be taken into account. I'm not sure what the OP could bring to the table to support their 'story' except perjury.

If the neighbour requested access to paint the other side of the fence and the OP refused, the nieghbour could apply to the court for an access order under the Access to Neighbouring Lands Act.

Small disputes can spiral out of control and can ruin lives. Finding a way to settle amicably is always the best solution.
 
I don't see the problem. She can't see your side of the fence, so why worry what colour it is?

Besides, she ought to be grateful that you wanted to paint your side in the first place, as anything you treat it with, you're spending money on preserving someone elses fence.
 
it's going inside the existing fence and will not be on the boundary either so I might take it higher than the usual "boundary no higher than 2m" limit.

The 2 metre permitted development limit applies to a fence anywhere on the property that is not adjacent to the highway, not just to a fence on the boundary.

Cheers
Richard
 
Yes, she could claim the cost of having the fence repainted to the colour she wishes it to be. A small claim is straightforward to do, doesn't cost much and can be done without legal representation.
That's doing something official.


She could go further and obtain an injunction to prevent the OP interefering with it.
That's doing something official.


A dispute doesn't need the involvment of lawyers or Police or courts or any 'officialdom' to make it a dispute.
Both of your examples involve courts and/or lawyers.
 
In a (faintly ridiculous) situation like that, if the owner of the fence took the OP to court,
That's a

IF


I would expect most solicitors to advise against that course of action.

Whatever the legalities of the situation, realities have to be considered, and taking someone to court because they painted the side of your fence which you cannot see does not seem to be a rational course of action. Courts tend not to look favourably on frivolous actions.


judgement would be reached on the balance of probabilities.
Indeed, but judgement of what?

Of course IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that you'd have to show that you had suffered some loss to be able to sue someone. I doubt that having an irrational refusal to allow one side of your fence to be painted, not at your expense and not at your inconvenience ignored would be considered a loss.


It's a shame, in a way, that this topic exists, because apart from this, if the "dispute" remains informal it remains deniable.

The letter? Was it sent recorded delivery?

The phone conversations - have they recorded them?

The message the OP left - have they kept it? Even if they have, all it says is "sorry I didn't ask - would it be OK to paint it?". Who is to say that permission was refused?


Small disputes can spiral out of control and can ruin lives. Finding a way to settle amicably is always the best solution.
Maybe there isn't one.

Maybe building a second fence would enrage the neighbour even more.

Maybe painting it when the neighbour would be unaware of it being done would be the best way to proceed, followed by gritting of teeth (and nothing in writing or recordable) and saying "well, it's done now".
 
kingandy2nd said:
"OP : Prove it.
Angry neighbour : errrrrrrrmmmmmmm.
In a civil court there is no requirement to provide proof to the same standard as a criminal court - it only needs to be assessed on the balance of probabilities. If the fence was not painted before the neighbour went on holiday but was on their return then they simply need to prove they were on holiday when it happened and I would be very surprised if a judge did not find in their favour. For the fence to be painted someone would need access to the OPs property for a long period of time, and without a police record of a reported break in I doubt the OP would have any chance.

It may sound ridiculous but that's the system.

Besides, she ought to be grateful that you wanted to paint your side in the first place, as anything you treat it with, you're spending money on preserving someone elses fence.
We don't know if it applies to the fence in question, but a good quality treated fence should never be painted, and certainly not on both sides, or it will trap moisture and accelerate its demise. A properly treated timber fence costs 4-5 times the cost of DIY-shed timber fence, but it will last 40 years before falling down rather than 5.

As for informing potential buyers of disputes, unless she does something "official", does it count as a "dispute"?
Yes it does. A silly dispute over a fence or hedge can knock 10% off a sale price when declared. Assuming a national average price of £180k would you risk a dispute that could cost you £18k?

As there appears to be history between these two neighbours I would not buy either property if they came up for sale, even with 10% off. The stress of living next to an unreasonable neighbour takes years off of your life.

I would expect most solicitors to advise against that course of action.

Whatever the legalities of the situation, realities have to be considered, and taking someone to court because they painted the side of your fence which you cannot see does not seem to be a rational course of action. Courts tend not to look favourably on frivolous actions.
A solicitor will do whatever their client asks of them, within the law (and sometimes bordering on the edge of it), for as long as the client continues to pay them. As mentioned though making a claim for criminal damage through the small claims court does not require any form of professional representation. You can do it yourself for a tiny fee. And the OPs actions, however misguided by good intentions, are still criminal damage. If I painted the passenger side of your car would you be happy to say "oh well, never mind" as you can only see it from your neighbour's drive? Of course not, you would sue them for criminal damage and the cost of respraying your car.

As the neighbour has declared they do not wish their property to be painted then the OP has only two options if they don't want to leave the fence as it is:
1) Build their own fence tightly against the boundary (stagger the posts so the gap is minimal). Duplicating boundary features is prone to future boundary disputes so make sure it sits against the boundary and photograph it to show the position. Ensure any future owners of either property know that it is your fence on your land facing the boundary and not astride it.
2) Plant suitable shrubs, etc, that will grow up to mask and soften the fence.
 
Yes, she could claim the cost of having the fence repainted to the colour she wishes it to be. A small claim is straightforward to do, doesn't cost much and can be done without legal representation.
That's doing something official.


She could go further and obtain an injunction to prevent the OP interefering with it.
That's doing something official.


A dispute doesn't need the involvment of lawyers or Police or courts or any 'officialdom' to make it a dispute.
Both of your examples involve courts and/or lawyers.

Those were answers to your question:

What's she going to do? Take the OP to court?

The TA6 form doesn't require anything to be official to be declared. A complaint is a complaint - as in neighbour ranted at OP for painting the fence.

I'm not defending the neighbour or the OP. I'm pointing out that situations can spiral out of control and that's seldom a good situation for anyone. If the OP were to further aggravate the neighbour, perhaps the neighbour is bloody-minded enough to go to court because she doesn't like the paint dribbles from the OP on her side of her expensively installed new fence, pays someone to repaint it and sues the OP. She doesn't need lawyers to go to court and sure, she might lose as the court may consider it trivial or vexatious, but it's now a full-blown official dispute that isn't ever going to go away.

I'm suggesting that trying to find a solution now that makes it go away so that it doesn't have to be declared is better than digging the hole deeper and entrenching positions further.
 

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