New Boiler Reccomendation

[besenzig]

Hi

I have an Ideal Mexico RS Super boiler (cast iron heat exchanger) which has been very reliable, only changed the thermocouple in 20 years and still working fine.

Thinking ahead sooner or later this will pack up and need replacing, I was thinking of Ideal again, say a condensing boiler, because this one has been so good. I read from various posts that Ideal are not so good these days. Can you guys in the business suggest a good reliable boiler. I am getting on a bit and want something thats reliable and good quality.

My current set up is :- Largeish 3 bedroom house, one bath, one shower. Open vented fully pumped on Honeywell S plan controls. There 2 heating ciruits working independantly via separate room stats. I would like to keep the external controls as they were wired by me and I fully understand them.

Thanks

 

[sterod1971]

IFIWEREU id stay away from from ideal boilers, they aint what they used to be. Any decent open vented boiler should work (Vaillant, WB etc) but id advise getting a decent reputable firm around to have a look at your system and explain your options to you.

 

[besenzig]

IFIWEREU id stay away from from ideal boilers, they aint what they used to be. Any decent open vented boiler should work (Vaillant, WB etc) but id advise getting a decent reputable firm around to have a look at your system and explain your options to you.

I know of Valiant but who are 'WB'.....thanks

 

[kevplumb]

look here

 

[bengasman]

Ideal not being very good is an understatement, I would not fit them if I got them for free.
Very important, if not the most important, is to find a good installer i.e. one that does a good job and has the required knowledge to advise on what is the best choice for your particular situation.
I would highly recommend to use the opportunity to get rid of the tank in the loft and convert the system to a sealed setup. Won't cost a lot extra, and has several advantages over an open vented system.
Be weary of people who come up with excuses like : the pipes are too old, they won't hold, or: it will make the valves leak.
If the pipes or rads are so far gone that they won't stand the extra one bar, they will start to fall apart with an open system before long, causing repair after repair.
A system should be pressure tested at 10 bar when the boiler is changed; if it holds that, it will hold 1 bar for decades.
Brands that are currently considered amongst the best:

Atag, good boiler but excessively expensive to buy and maintain.
Worcester Bosch, CDI range is very good, after sales is the best in the country, some engineers find them hard to work on.
Viessmann, latest models are very well designed, won't win any prizes for good looks.
Vailant, good build quality, worst customer service of any make available in the entire country.

All 4 come with 5 year warranty when installed by accredited installer.

 

[besenzig]

Ideal not being very good is an understatement, I would not fit them if I got them for free.
Very important, if not the most important, is to find a good installer i.e. one that does a good job and has the required knowledge to advise on what is the best choice for your particular situation.
I would highly recommend to use the opportunity to get rid of the tank in the loft and convert the system to a sealed setup. Won't cost a lot extra, and has several advantages over an open vented system.
Be weary of people who come up with excuses like : the pipes are too old, they won't hold, or: it will make the valves leak.
If the pipes or rads are so far gone that they won't stand the extra one bar, they will start to fall apart with an open system before long, causing repair after repair.
A system should be pressure tested at 10 bar when the boiler is changed; if it holds that, it will hold 1 bar for decades.
Brands that are currently considered amongst the best:

Atag, good boiler but excessively expensive to buy and maintain.
Worcester Bosch, CDI range is very good, after sales is the best in the country, some engineers find them hard to work on.
Viessmann, latest models are very well designed, won't win any prizes for good looks.
Vailant, good build quality, worst customer service of any make available in the entire country.

All 4 come with 5 year warranty when installed by accredited installer.

Thanks for that. I'm not too keen on a sealed system with pressurised tanks such as Megaflo because I believe the safety featurs on the tank need to be checked annually..is that right. Some people have likened a Megaflo type arrangement as a bomb in the house waiting to go off when the safety devices fail.

Perhaps you can list the benefits of a sealed system apart from loosing the tanks in the loft and better pressure on the taps & showers...Thanks

 

[doitall]

Some people have likened a Megaflo type arrangement as a bomb in the house waiting to go off when the safety devices fail.

Been talking to waltersystems/DrDrivel/BigBurner and whatever else he goes under now.

An unvented cylinder has NEVER exploded in this Country, and if installed by a competent engineer, is unlikely to ever, they're too many safety devises, and they would all need to fail simultaneously.

Good boilers are Broag Avanta, and some Worcester Greenstar range.

 

[Agile]

No, he is only refering to the heating system which is sealed.

That adds about 2% to the annual efficiency and removes any potential failure with the F&E tank in the loft as well as reducing exposure to oxygen which causes sludge.

You can keep your open vented hot water system.

If the cylinder does not have foam insulation its advisable to replace that at the same time.

Tony

 

[doitall]

I'm not too keen on a sealed system with pressurised tanks such as Megaflo because I believe the safety featurs on the tank need to be checked annually..is that right. Some people have likened a Megaflo type arrangement as a bomb in the house waiting to go off when the safety devices fail.

 

[kevplumb]

Thanks for that. I'm not too keen on a sealed system with pressurised tanks such as Megaflo because I believe the safety featurs on the tank need to be checked annually..is that right. Some people have likened a Megaflo type arrangement as a bomb in the house waiting to go off when the safety devices fail.

yes quite right they are lethal you see it on the news every day how they keep exploding and kill/.maim people

some people don't half talk some carp

flueless gas fire is a lot more risky

scruff just give you the list

 

[bengasman]

Thanks for that. I'm not too keen on a sealed system with pressurised tanks such as Megaflo because I believe the safety featurs on the tank need to be checked annually..is that right. Some people have likened a Megaflo type arrangement as a bomb in the house waiting to go off when the safety devices fail.

Perhaps you can list the benefits of a sealed system apart from loosing the tanks in the loft and better pressure on the taps & showers...Thanks

The part you are talking about is usually indicated as an unvented cylinder, which works from mains pressure, and should indeed be inspected annually. It is not the part I meant.

The "sealed system" refers to the method whereby the (heating) top-up tank is removed, and the connection closed, which makes the system sealed. This can be with open vent cylinder, unvented cylinder, or a combi.

The water is let in via a dedicated filling loop.
The advantages are :

Airlocks are a thing of the past, I have never seen a sealed system that had that problem.

No connection to open air, hence no evaporation or contact with oxygen, which improves the longevity and prevents the ingress of dirt.

(At least in theory) the higher pressure from the water to the steel would improve the performance. I can see how that theory makes sense, but have my doubts that it is significant enough to measure.
What I have noticed, but can't explain, is that sealed systems seem to flow better than open vent designs.

 

[doitall]

The higher pressure does make a lot of difference to circulation Ben. You can sometimes get a flow on a sticky rad by up the pressure half a bar.

 

[Agile]

A system should be pressure tested at 10 bar when the boiler is changed; if it holds that, it will hold 1 bar for decades.

Anyone who tests a sealed heating system at 10 Bar is asking for trouble!

Rads are usually specified for up to 3 Bar and flash tested at 6 Bar.

Subjecting any older rads to even 3 Bar is also asking for one to burst.

And as I learnt only recently some fitted to a Servowarm system were only rated at 1 Bar !

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

Rads are usually specified for up to 3 Bar and flash tested at 6 Bar.

Stelrad Elite rads are tested to 10.5 Bar and guaranteed up to 8 Bar.

 

[doitall]

Rads are usually specified for up to 3 Bar and flash tested at 6 Bar.

Stelrad Elite rads are tested to 10.5 Bar and guaranteed up to 8 Bar.

Yes Dave, but I wouldn't test an old system more than 3bar, and that's with the boiler and radiators isolated.