New ring circuit or spurs?

[dremario]

I recently bought a house. It turns out that all sockets in the property are on the same ring circuit (the kitchen sockets are on a separate ring circuit). There are only two sockets on the ground floor, one in the living room and one in the dining room, both on spurs fed from the ring circuit that runs between the ceiling of the ground floor and the floorboards of the first floor. As I need two more sockets in the living room, what’s the appropriate way of installing them? Should I run two more additional spurs from the existing ring circuit. Or should I install a new ring circuit for the ground floor only?
On the excising circuit there are now 7 sockets
Financially it makes sense to simply run two more spurs to the new sockets, but I am not sure if building regulations require a separate circuit for the ground floor and first floor?
Any advice would be much appreciated?

 

[AndyPRK]

It sounds like a small house so a new ring is unnecessary.

Depends what the state of decoration is.

You could run the new sockets to the cu if easier.
Either to the existing ring MCB
Or to a new 20 or 16a MCB.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I recently bought a house. It turns out that all sockets in the property are on the same ring circuit (the kitchen sockets are on a separate ring circuit).

That sounds like a contradiction? As seems to suggest two RFCs.

As I need two more sockets in the living room, what’s the appropriate way of installing them? Should I run two more additional spurs from the existing ring circuit.

Providing you are not spurring from a spur, you can or you will need to introduce a fused connection unit at the location where the RFC is broken into

Or should I install a new ring circuit for the ground floor only?

You could if you wanted but sounds like a lot of work, time and money for addition of two outlets, extending the circuit is another option.

On the excising circuit there are now 7 sockets
Financially it makes sense to simply run two more spurs to the new sockets, but I am not sure if building regulations require a separate circuit for the ground floor and first floor?

Any new circuit would require an application to building controls, to notify them of the work, there is fee for this application, or you could use an electrician that can notify on your behalf, one that is registered competent can do this for much less than anybody that is not registered as a competent person.
Any newly buried cable less than 50mm within wall and not mechanically protected will require 30mA RCD protection as will any newly installed socket. So if you have not already got RCD protection on this circuit, you need to make previsions for all the new stuff to be protected by RCD.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I recently bought a house. It turns out that all sockets in the property are on the same ring circuit (the kitchen sockets are on a separate ring circuit).

That sounds like a contradiction? As seems to suggest two RFCs.

Perhaps the kitchen is outside.

 

[dremario]

I recently bought a house. It turns out that all sockets in the property are on the same ring circuit (the kitchen sockets are on a separate ring circuit).

That sounds like a contradiction? As seems to suggest two RFCs.

Perhaps the kitchen is outside.

I haven't explained it correctly. The kitchen sockets are on a separate ring circuit. The sockets in the rest of the house are on a seperate ring circuit. It's just that in all of the houses I've lived in sof far, there have always been 3 ring circuits: one for the kitchen sockets, one for the sockets on the ground floor and one for the sockets on the first floor. That's why I was supprised to find out that there is only one ring circuit for ground and first floor.
I now thing I'm just going to add two additional spurs for the two new sockets that are needed.
The house is need of complete refurbishment so I do not mind chasing the cables now as later the whole place would be replastered.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Are you sure it is a ring final circuit and not a radial?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Perhaps the kitchen is outside.

Would outside still be considered part of the property?

 

[dremario]

Are you sure it is a ring final circuit and not a radial?

Yes I'm almost certain

 

[dremario]

I was under the impression that it is compalsary to have three different socker ring circuits in a property: for the kitchen, ground and first floor respectively. Is it ok to have only two, one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the property sockets?

 

[securespark]

Different houses have all sorts of different permutations of circuits.

In fact, it is not even necessary to have a ring final circuit at all.

Some terraced houses only have one ring final for the whole house, some small terraces even have only one 20A radial.

Some houses have a ring final for downstairs and a radial for upstairs.

The permutations are endless!

 

[dremario]

Different houses have all sorts of different permutations of circuits.

In fact, it is not even necessary to have a ring final circuit at all.

Some terraced houses only have one ring final for the whole house, some small terraces even have only one 20A radial.

Some houses have a ring final for downstairs and a radial for upstairs.

The permutations are endless!

I really did not know this. Thanks

 

[flameport]

Unless you want to:
1. spend far longer testing
2. waste cable
3. make it tiresome to add extra sockets later
4. install a circuit where a single fault usually results in overloading the cable
5. install a circuit where it is possible to overload the cable even when installed correctly

don't bother with ring circuits.

They are a relic which should have been removed from BS7671 years ago.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I was under the impression that it is compalsary to have three different socker ring circuits in a property: for the kitchen, ground and first floor respectively.

No there is no such regulation/requirement.

Is it ok to have only two, one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the property sockets?

It's not not okay.

 

[AndyPRK]

2 they don't really waste cable or copper.

 

[flameport]

Any ring circuit can be converted to two radials by removing a section of cable.
That section of cable is the waste.