New UPVC windows advice

[Muj]

Hi everyone,

I’m after a little advice. I’m planning on getting 4 windows replaced in my home, they’re not big measuring at 1000mm tall and 360mm wide and sit just over 800mm off the floor.

I’ve had two quotes:

Veka Matrix 70 with Pilkington A Glass
or
Kommerling 70 with toughened glass

I’m not sure if I need toughened glass as my windows start over 800mm off the floor but just going off what was said by the fitter.

Is the Kommerling window much better than the Veka? Should I go for toughened glass rather than the Pilkington ?

I’m wanting to know what combination would be best as there’s only £100 between the two quotes so rather go for whichever profile and glass would be best in keeping my house warm.

Appreciate any help I can get. Thank you in advance.

 

[Muj]

bump

 

[DiyNutJob]

Not worth splitting hairs over a 100 difference out of 1000's. Throw a dice, or toss a coin. Regardless of the outcome, it will be acceptable.

 

[opps]

I don't know the answer to your questions, and I can see that you have asked the same question on number of other sites.

Hopefully @crank39 or @ronniecabers will be able to give you sound advice.

 

[crank39]

I have been a service engineer for 30+ years having started out beginning of the 90s in fitting but soon after moving into service, in those 30years I've seen the good, bad and the ugly so my advice would be this, ignore the nationals and go local, small to medium size operations even regional, they trade on recommendations, word of mouth, google/trust pilot reviews. Ask to see any recent installations, maybe search Facebook if said company do social media, ask friends, ask or look on your street or local area to see if anyone has had a recent install, be cheeky and knock on the door and ask, who fitted them, are you happy with them, we're they tidy and punctual and there have been any problems afterwards and if so have they been rectified to your satisfaction.

Probably one of the most common questions I get asked is which profile is best, that's a term the trade use but to you it's the frame make or the name of the extrusion. Back in the 80s there was a lot of iffy profiles, a fair few that weren't UV stable and some which contained to much 'regrind', i.e reground pvc put back into the system, most turned yellow after a while. 90s was a lot better and pretty much when they got on top of it, at that time I remember Rehau being the stand out profile, top of the tree, if you where having Rehau fitted you were paying top money, nowadays while still a good profile there are others just as good and dare I say may be even better. My answer to which profile is best is this, they are all now much of a muchness, the two you mention I'd have no problems recommending along with and in no particular order Deceuninck, Eurocell, Halo, Linear, Profile 22, Selecta, Spectus, Sysnseal, Swish but one I would definitely avoid is Duraflex.

Reason I'd recommend any of those is because none are crap, it's all in the fitting, the profiles are all there or there abouts and there's no real stand outs at the top end, Duraflex is IMO right at the bottom. A middle of the road window fitted well is better than a top end window that's been thrown in, I've seen Rehau windows that have been spat in so just because the profile is German quality if its been chucked in by a monkey then you'll get problems hence its difficult to recommend fitters, in terms of profiles then they're all good

I've gone on a bit but that's my take, hope I've helped rather than muddy the waters

 

[Notch7]

^^^
I couldn’t agree more with Crank above

a small local firm where the person surveying is an installer or used to be one, makes a difference.

Ive seen so many problems with big companies because the 3 stage process of salesman, surveyor, installer who all have their own agenda.

Its really cr@p when installers turn up on site with a bunch of windows surveyed by somebody else and the first time they see the job is the day of fitting.

Ive done loads of surveying having once run a joinery company making and installing all kinds of complex period joinery - windows are not easy to specify or measure.

 

[crank39]

I will just add the safety glass rule, any glass that is lower than 800mm from the floor needs to be 'safety glass', any glass within 300mm of a door needs to be safety glass regardless if that glass is above 800mm, any glass within a door unless the glass is above 1500mm. Safety glass can either be toughened like a car door glass that shatters once broken or laminated like a windscreen, stays together when cracked. Do not confuse safety glass with coated glass, this is glass that has metallic coating to improve heat retention and overall U value of the entire frame, the most common coated glass or Low E(emissivity)glass is Pilkington K or Saint Gobain Planitherm, both do a job but my personal go to glass is the Planitherm total+ because the Pilkington K has a horrible blueish hue to it when looking through the glass to outside, K is classed as a 'hard coat' and is quite old tech, Planitherm is a soft coat and is 99.9% clear invisible though Ronnie is better clued up on glass spec as that's his field

 

[Muj]

thank you everyone for your responses. I have posted in a couple other sites too just to get the best overall advice, as I can imagine there’s many professionals that can be on one forum and not another.

The answers I’ve had so far are very helpful. I guess my next question would be, how do I know a fitter is good? A lot of images are taken from far

 

[Muj]

I will just add the safety glass rule, any glass that is lower than 800mm from the floor needs to be 'safety glass', any glass within 300mm of a door needs to be safety glass regardless if that glass is above 800mm, any glass within a door unless the glass is above 1500mm. Safety glass can either be toughened like a car door glass that shatters once broken or laminated like a windscreen, stays together when cracked. Do not confuse safety glass with coated glass, this is glass that has metallic coating to improve heat retention and overall U value of the entire frame, the most common coated glass or Low E(emissivity)glass is Pilkington K or Saint Gobain Planitherm, both do a job but my personal go to glass is the Planitherm total+ because the Pilkington K has a horrible blueish hue to it when looking through the glass to outside, K is classed as a 'hard coat' and is quite old tech, Planitherm is a soft coat and is 99.9% clear invisible though Ronnie is better clued up on glass spec as that's his field

I spoke to the fitter about this, as the glass in my current windows start at approx 850mm so I thought I could have maybe a low value standard glass but the fitter recommended I still use toughened glass.

I have no problem going with his recommendation but wanted to know if using standard glass will give me better heat retention than toughened glass?

Also, I’ve read a fair amount on toughened and laminate glass and in all honesty can’t decide between the two as they seem to have their own pros and cons

 

[crank39]

I spoke to the fitter about this, as the glass in my current windows start at approx 850mm so I thought I could have maybe a low value standard glass but the fitter recommended I still use toughened glass.

It's not where the window starts, or where the window cill is, it's literally where the glass starts, technically if it's above 800mm you don't need toughened or laminated safety glass but for the sake of 50mm I'd agree on the fitters recommendation and fit safety glass, toughened or laminated would be your choice

I have no problem going with his recommendation but wanted to know if using standard glass will give me better heat retention than toughened glass?

Also, I’ve read a fair amount on toughened and laminate glass and in all honesty can’t decide between the two as they seem to have their own pros and cons

Don't confuse heat retaining glass with toughened glass, both are two different things.

 

[ronniecabers]

I'm a bit late to this one I'm afraid.. everything Crank says is excellent advice. All current profiles are much of a muchness, I do however belive Duraflex is being discontinued thank god!
As goes the glass... not sure why your fitter is so adamant about toughened. If over 800mm from finished floor or over 300mm from a door way ( and also not a door) then there is no real reason to fit toughened and technically your paying extra for something you don't legally need. ( unless it's deemed a critical location too..eg bottom of stairs .. Next to a shower etc ). But having said that 50mm better to err onthe side of caution. Lami vs tough... well Lami is used in all new builds now so....near in mind tough when broken will leave lots of little pieces of glass and potentially an unsecured opening... lami on thr other hand will take a fair bit to break to a hole, so if security is an issue , go with lami but it will be more expenaive