New Windows, Water in Sash & Frame

[AkiraDIY]

I got new uPVC tilt and turns installed and after the bit of rain we had this morning, there's still some water in the sash and frame. Can someone tell me if this is normal or going to be an issue?

Water seems to be collecting inside the sash and when I open the window, the momentum sloshing the water makes it come streaming out the weep hole and onto my floor. It was still dripping steadily by the time I got my phone and opened the camera app for a pic. The window sash is level and pretty big (1200 W x 1800 H) and there's only 2 weep holes, about a third of the way in from each corner. Is this unavoidable?

Water is also gathering in the frame. They've screwed the frame directly into the box, which I assume is normal, but wouldn't water just wick down the screw and eventually rot the window box?

My old windows had a raised lip in the middle to separate the water from the screws and keeps. These Rehau frames seem to have a tiny lip that isn't high enough to keep the water separated.

 

[AkiraDIY]

no-one got 2 cents worth sharing?

 

[blup]

If its been fitted properly its presumably getting in through the weep hole, if by that you mean the closable vent. And from there to the framing screw which is a usual point of fixing. I think increasingly harsh and frequent driving rain is a factor.

 

[AkiraDIY]

There are no trickle vents on the windows. I know it's against regs but I'm high up and they whistle in the wind. I prefer not to have them.

By weep hole, I mean the drain hole in the bottom of the sash frame (the part that opens) to allow water out. When I open the window, water comes out onto my floor through that hole.

Driving rain is hitting the glass and getting into the sash from there presumably. The window is level so I'm guessing surface tension is holding some water in the middle of the sash and when you open it, the momentum makes the water travel outwards, towards the weep hole, draining onto my carpet. Don't know if anything can be done about that though due to the size.

The framing screws, I'm mainly concerned that water in the rain channel is going to wick down and eventually rot the window box as the screws aren't sealed with anything that I can see.

 

[crank39]

Who signed the non compliant windows off as compliant with June 2022 building regs regarding trickle vents?

 

[AkiraDIY]

noone signed them off and it's also not my question. FENSA certs aren't a thing in scotland.

 

[blup]

Maybe the weep holes are blocked or where they drain to is either by poor design or fitting.

 

[AkiraDIY]

the weep holes/slots in the sash are 600mm apart on centre. I think they're just spaced out too much and that allows enough water to collect and stream out when they get opened. I'll ask him to come back and put another hole in

 

[crank39]

noone signed them off and it's also not my question. FENSA certs aren't a thing in scotland.

Are you saying FENSA doesn't cover Scotland, doesn't apply to Scottish installations or do you mean no one in Scotland bothers with FENSA and just does what they like?

Have the installers provided a certificate of compliance?

I'm just intrigued thats all as I used to work for Kinnell Holdings, Certass, Quality Assured National Warranties, Guarantee Protection Insurance and Warranty Services all based in Ayrshire

 

[AkiraDIY]

Are you saying FENSA doesn't cover Scotland, doesn't apply to Scottish installations or do you mean no one in Scotland bothers with FENSA and just does what they like?

Have the installers provided a certificate of compliance?

I'm just intrigued thats all as I used to work for Kinnell Holdings, Certass, Quality Assured National Warranties, Guarantee Protection Insurance and Warranty Services all based in Ayrshire

All of the above.

CertAss is an alternative to FENSA but it's essentially the same. Holds no real weight in my opinion. FENSA Scotland only came in recently and is a voluntary scheme that most people don't even know about and those that do, generally don't care. No-one I know that's bought or sold a house in Scotland has ever asked about or for a window cert; be it the estate agent, buyer, or solicitors.

You'd also be hard pressed to find a window installer that's FENSA approved; there's only 6 in Glasgow iirc, 4 who said no/too busy over the phone when they heard it was a 3rd floor tenement, and the other 2 didn't answer.

From what I gather, people in Scotland will generally follow the advice of the window installer if they don't have a clear idea of what they want. A good installer will talk you through the options, let you know what's possible and what the regs want/require, but ultimately leave the decision to you.

I specifically requested no trickle vents as I don't need/want more draughts and especially noise. He was willing to provide a CoC with a signed disclaimer stating the non-conformities I requested (no vents and 600mm fixed panes at the top) but I said no need.

The way I see it, the regs are designed for new builds that are supposed to be more airtight for energy efficiency, not 200 year old tenements.

 

[crank39]

For work to comply with the Building Regulations, all requirements must be met in full.

Members of competent person schemes self-certify that their work complies with the relevant requirements of the Building Regulations including Regulation 4(3). The work can only be certified by a member of a competent person scheme if the work complies with the Building Regulations, which includes the requirement that ventilation for the building has not been made less satisfactory as a result of the work. A disclaimer signed by you stating you do not wish to have trickle vents or that they will be installed in future is not a suitable way of complying with the Building Regulations, as all requirements must be met in full for the works to comply with the Building Regulations.

So as I said your windows don't comply, a signed disclaimer does not get around that fact and a CoC cannot be provided