Novagard SAB Wiring with Galaxy Panels

[tommybhoy]

Its been a while since my last request for help though work commitments have stalled my home projects of recent - however my alarm system is pretty much finished - though I added a live bellbox (the original being a dummy) Its a fairly vintage novagard 2 (twin sounder)

All seems ok when testing (default 3m bell delay and a missing 0v link to the strobe relay at the panel caught me out initially) but I have since read that one of the sab modules tamper connections should be connected to 0v.

That cant happen with the galaxys detection loop.

I have set up a zone on my galaxy panel dedicated for 'bell tamper' and have wired it as such too, i.e. with a series and parallel 1k resistor at the tamper feed and return connections at the sab module - Opening any bell tamper activates the sirens and also reports as bell tamper at the panel, so all is fine? Its just that the literature for this sab states that this connection should be wired to 0v (unless a serial mode is used etc..) but the literature does not include Honeywell panels (Galaxy 18 in my case..) and although all does seem ok, I'd still appreciate if anyone can shed some light here...

Regards,

tommy

 

[socdesign]

There are two tamper connections at the bell box. Simply link one of them to 0V supply in the bell box. The other is then connected to the 'T' tamper return of the panel.

There's no need to connect a zone to monitor the tamper, the 'T' return is dedicated for this and does not require a balanced resistor setup.

 

[tommybhoy]

There are two tamper connections at the bell box. Simply link one of them to 0V supply in the bell box. The other is then connected to the 'T' tamper return of the panel.

There's no need to connect a zone to monitor the tamper, the 'T' return is dedicated for this and does not require a balanced resistor setup.

Many thanks for the reply. Ok, I will try as you suggest then, I sort of figured that particular tamper connection was for the internal speaker (due to the proximity of the speaker terminals..) but had shunted it out with a 1k resistor all the while...so another thing learned...mind u, it still worked ok.

Anyways, that makes a bit more sense I suppose. I knew I couldn't connect any side of the balanced zone to 0v - but there must be some sort of logic/electrical isolation on the sab, thus allowing an isolated (of sorts..) output for a tamper connection to the panel otherwise it wouldn't work as things stand - but id much rather have it wired as a dedicated tamper instead of using a zone and also give me some peace of mind about leaving that 0v connection amiss from the sab tamper connection...just a pity the sab guide doesn't illustrate galaxy connections though...

Regards,

tommy

 

[socdesign]

Many thanks for the reply. Ok, I will try as you suggest then, I sort of figured that particular tamper connection was for the internal speaker (due to the proximity of the speaker terminals..) but had shunted it out with a 1k resistor all the while...so another thing learned...mind u, it still worked ok.

If internal speakers are tampered, then this would be with a zone. The 1k resistor worked, as the 'T' input is pulled up (positive) with a weaker pull up resistor. You pulled down with a lower value resistor, thus bringing the signal to 0V which is what the CPU wants for a non tamper setting. The firmware automatically references this signal as Bell Tamper when it triggers, so it's best to tamper the external sounder with it.

Anyways, that makes a bit more sense I suppose. I knew I couldn't connect any side of the balanced zone to 0v - but there must be some sort of logic/electrical isolation on the sab, thus allowing an isolated (of sorts..) output for a tamper connection to the panel otherwise it wouldn't work as things stand - but id much rather have it wired as a dedicated tamper instead of using a zone and also give me some peace of mind about leaving that 0v connection amiss from the sab tamper connection...just a pity the sab guide doesn't illustrate galaxy connections though...

Regards,

tommy

Actually, one side of the zone inputs is 0V and the other is the balanced side which is pulled to a specific voltage depending on the resistor values connected by the zone state. Your SAB tamper circuit is basically a voltage free switch (not all SAB tamper connections are), so you could connect one end to 0V and connect the other via a 1K resistor back to any panel zone. You could also apply a 1k resistor across the switch too just like a normal zone, but since the switch is only used for tamper, it wouldn't matter.

It makes sense just to use the simple 'T' based connection though.

 

[tommybhoy]

Hi socdesign,

Sorry for the delay in getting back. Yes, I did as you suggested but ran into a couple of issues. Firstly I found that opening a bellbox tamper triggered the tamper at the panel but not always within the bellbox itself - i.e. the bellbox sounder sometimes remained silent, though the sab's installation/tamper hold off feature is most likely the issue here I'd imagine but still bit of a pain...the other issue, albeit daft, was that the panel reported the tamper as 'auxiliary tamper' instead of 'bell tamper'

A bit twee I know but I had a spare zone anyway and have reinstated the original config, sab tamper feed and tamper return connected as a double balanced zone and programmed as 'bell tamper'

All works as spec (or at least, how I want it to and reports as 'bell tamper' at the panel and the worry about that missing 0v link at the tamper connection of the sab is resolved - its not needed with my set-up anyway but thanks for explaining the input operation, it just didn't register with me initially.

I have finished the thing at last and even managed to fix up where I had to gouge walls and bury cables etc...im an electrician but don't wire houses, I work in industry, mostly reactive repairs - not generally installations - although do from time to time but I will say that its been some effort hiding the wires from my own installation, the original cabling surface ran over 70% - Now? Nowhere Though I was rewiring the entire flat at the same time it has to be said...

A thought though; How much effort are ADT (who did my systems original install) engineers - or alarm engineers in general - allowed when carrying out such installs and how much collateral damage are they allowed to make?

Anyway, many thanks again socdesign, u been a big help and a good teacher along the way, esp in explaining some of the more intricate details, yes, I get the operation of the zones - for some reason I was thinking the zones were isolated and had no connection to the common 0v line of the panel - But I now know better and again, many thanks for the lessons and its been a pleasure being helped by someone so knowledgeable.


Regards,

Tommy