old boiler - high gas bills - help? :(

[snadge]

I think my grans boiler may be faulty.... she and her 86 year old husband live in a very tiny 2 bed upper flat - during the summer her Npower dual-fuel bill for six months for GAS was £19 a month (elec was £22) GREAT - £243 for Apr-Oct....

...now my gran&grandad are TIGHT and they would rather wrap up and sit in coat+gloves than have heating on much/high in winter but she DOES obviously use it a little more... her 2007 WINTER (oct07-apr08) 6 month usage for just Gas was £440 (still quite high at nearly £70 month for gas only in a small 2 bed flat with 2 pensioners) - so Npower estimated this next (6-month) winter gas usage (oct08-apr09) to be £589... (WOW way too much surely almost £100 a month) altogether it totalled at £142 a month she has to pay for both elec & gas -

now with looking at the bills and seeing that all is cheap and fine during summer at £40 month for both but then £142 month for winter is wrong surely

so...

we were thinking it could possibly the BOILER its an old SAUNIER DUVAL SD 623 COMBI-BOILER installed on the floor , she has to get on ground to turn a switch to fill her own water tank and the hot water pressure is low and has to run it for ages to get hot through - could this boiler be the cause of the high gas usage in the winter....?

and if so....

whats a good replacement?
whats a good quote?
who's best to use?
what should she ask the fitter when he qouting?


many thanks for reading and I HOPE I can help my gran because I think its a rip-off but I dunno if its actually Npowers fault...

 

[Deleted member 105431]

Firstly make sure the flat is as well insulated as possible (especially the loft). Secondly get 3 quotes all for the same boiler.


DO NOT USE BG!
DO NOT BUY AN "IDEAL"
My personal recommendation would be a Glow worm ultracom 24cxi with a spirovent, around £1750 with a flush all in would be a ball park figure.

 

[snadge]

thanks for your quick reply its really appreciated...

who is best to use for quotes etc?

(we dont know anything about this sort of thing)

also, what is a 'flush'
and is the SAUNIER DUVAL SD 623 COMBI-BOILER an old problematic boiler? - just were trying to find out if it could be the problem... i think she would be disapointed to spend £1500-£2000 on new boiler and gas bills turned out to be the same

will look into your suggestion THANKS VERY MUCH

 

[gavinda]

her gas bills will be lower if she has her system properly cleaned and a new condensing combi fitted.

saunier duval are to put it mildly, carp.

to compare the bills a bit more accurately you could compare her unit use rather than cost as well as thia will allow you to compare boiler use year to year.

i recommend worcester bosch.

 

[snadge]

thanks for that - im been told similar things on other forums "condensing combi boiler and flush" etc

 

[bengasman]

they would be better off getting some insulation and draftproofing done.
lots of grants available, contrary to heating installation.
and the gas prices are really high, average annual bill coming close to a grand these days. or so i heard

 

[JohnD]

snadge, you keep talking about £££s. That is irrelevant. You need to talk about meter readings.

You must be aware that gas prices are a lot higher this winter than they have ever been before. You will have noticed that this winter has been unusually cold. You should know that many bills are based on estimates, and adjust for previous underpayments or overpayments.

Look at the insulation. Every hundred pounds spent on insulation will save you more per year than every thousand on a new boiler.

You relations may get loft insulation free, or heavily subsidised, and may possibly be able to get cavity wall insulation (though this depends on construction and probably the whole building would need to be done). Start by looking at the websites of their gas and electricity supplier, and ask the council what offers are available for the elderly.

Loft insulation saves more money, and gives more comfort, at lower cost, than anything else.

A new hot water cylinder jacket and pipe lagging will pay for itself in a few months.

Draughtproofing will pay for itself in weeks.

These simple measures will improve comfort and cut costs.

If you want to look up the meter reading history we can have a sensible discussion about gas usage as well.

 

[htgeng]

they would be better off getting some insulation and draftproofing done.
lots of grants available, contrary to heating installation.
and the gas prices are really high, average annual bill coming close to a grand these days. or so i heard

at their age they should get a free replacement boiler via the warmfront scheme. I think they try to sell 'addons' so its good idea if someone younger can be there when the call to do the assessment. For example with cavity walls insulation my parents where encouraged to pay another £200 for 'a better grade of insulation'

Also check obvious things like insulation levels are up to the maximum!
Also don't forget the oldies get a winter fuel allowance of £250? + extra payouts when it gets cold. Also if they don't have any cash, they should get all their bills paid for. It does make you wonder why anyone bothers to save for a pension!

 

[bengasman]

surely you mean the warmfront scam, not scheme.
i have yet to hear about the first job done by them that is really fine.
not to mention it seems that you can only get one brand: ideal.
and we all know that the repair bill is likely to exceed the price of the boiler after the warranty expires .

 

[htgeng]

surely you mean the warmfront scam, not scheme.
i have yet to hear about the first job done by them that is really fine.
not to mention it seems that you can only get one brand: ideal.
and we all know that the repair bill is likely to exceed the price of the boiler after the warranty expires .

sure but in all fairness it could then be taken out and replaced with a more reputable make. The only proviso I could see is that there is going to be a waiting list atm. However it sounds like grandad has the right idea and has lived through much worse winters in his lifetime!

 

[bengasman]

surely you mean the warmfront scam, not scheme.
i have yet to hear about the first job done by them that is really fine.
not to mention it seems that you can only get one brand: ideal.
and we all know that the repair bill is likely to exceed the price of the boiler after the warranty expires .

sure but in all fairness it could then be taken out and replaced with a more reputable make. The only proviso I could see is that there is going to be a waiting list atm. However it sounds like grandad has the right idea and has lived through much worse winters in his lifetime!

lost me on this one.
what would be the point of salamander replacing the old boiler and than someone else replacing that one?
i could possibly see a point if it was house where there was no heating at all, all though....

 

[D_Hailsham]

The first thing to do, before thinking about replacing the boiler, is to reduce the heat lost - this means insulation.

Check out Energy Savings Trust Grant Search

The Government have announced new help for the over 70's, but I don't know if it is available yet.

If your gran and grandad live in a rented flat, the landlord will have to give permission, but the rent cannot be put up for two years. If they own the flat, they should check the lease to find out what they can do - ask their solicitor or the managing agent, if necessary.

Warmfront will only replace the boiler is it is broken.

 

[snadge]

thanks for the replys guys...

my Grandad & Grandma live in a very small 2 bed upperflat (they own) with NO LOFT (flat roof) - they are on pension and have money in the bank that may exempt them from any grants...

 

[D_Hailsham]

my Grandad & Grandma live in a very small 2 bed upperflat (they own) with NO LOFT (flat roof)

Makes loft insulation a tad difficult!

they are on pension and have money in the bank that may exempt them from any grants...

Don't assume! Check the link I gave you. There are grants available for people in your G-P's situation. Check out what Npower is offering!

You may not be able to insulate the loft, but what about draught proofing and cavity insulation. It might be worth getting the other owners in the block involved to get the whole block insulated and draught proofed. Some might have to make a contribution; but it will be to their benefit.

 

[snadge]

thanks for your advice I really appreciate - I will pop over to see them soon and discuss options and take a closer look at exactly whats what (if windows are double glazed etc) - i think the flat is on its own , under it is entrance to garden - so not only is a flat roof but air gets UNDER the building aswell - im not so sure they have double glazing either - this would explain heat loss and high bills - THANKS FOR EVERYTHING THIS FORUMS ROCKS