Online/Digital version of the 18th Edition od BS7671

[eveares]

Hi all, does anyone know if the online/digital version of the latest edition of BS7671 has been published yet?

I am sure previous editions of BS7671 you could get in digital form, but can't find the digital version of the 18th edition on IET's website.

Anyone know anything about this?

Regards: Elliott.

 

[flameport]

https://electrical.theiet.org/resources/digital/digital-packages/

 

[winston1]

Bit naughty that digital packages have VAT added on whereas printed versions, being books, are VAT free.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

In what way is obeying the law 'a bit naughty'?

 

[JohnD]

for those who are business users, and VAT registered, it will make no difference.

 

[JohnW2]

In what way is obeying the law 'a bit naughty'?

One might hope that what winston meant was not that it was 'a bity naughty' to obey the law, but that the law was 'a bit naughty' by requiring VAT to be charged on publication in one format, but not on the identical publication in a different format.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

Is it? I don't know. Newspapers and books have been tax-free in England since 1855, I believe on the grounds that it was a tax on knowledge. They're among the things we chose not to put VAT on when we introduced it. We have ended up with some curious anomalies.

When VAT was introduced, it was put on most things, unless somebody could think of a compelling reason not to. Nobody thought of electronic books in 1972.

Even today, I can't think of a reason why a business tool (this is not exactly a consumer buy) should be zero-rated or tax exempt if it is a technical document, but not if it is, say, a hammer or a meter.

Can you?

 

[Adam_151]

Even today, I can't think of a reason why a business tool (this is not exactly a consumer buy) should be zero-rated or tax exempt if it is a technical document, but not if it is, say, a hammer or a meter.

Can you?

I can't think of a reason PPE should be zero rated if its safety boots or a hard hat, but not if its a hi-viz jacket, but that doesn't stop that being the case

 

[JohnD]

We have ended up with some curious anomalies.

None as unjust as the pernicious tax on chocolate biscuits, which Jaffa cakes escape.

 

[JohnW2]

Is it? I don't know. Newspapers and books have been tax-free in England since 1855, I believe on the grounds that it was a tax on knowledge. They're among the things we chose not to put VAT on when we introduced it. We have ended up with some curious anomalies.

Exactly.

When VAT was introduced, it was put on most things, unless somebody could think of a compelling reason not to. Nobody thought of electronic books in 1972.

Indeed, but they have had plenty of opportunity to 'correct' that since electronic books did appear - but they haven't.

Even today, I can't think of a reason why a business tool (this is not exactly a consumer buy) should be zero-rated or tax exempt if it is a technical document, but not if it is, say, a hammer or a meter. Can you?

Not really, if it IS being used as 'a business tool'. However, for some of us, VAT on paper copies of BS 7671 would be as much a "tax on knowledge" as was anything written in 1855 (or whenever) - and nothing to do with 'the tools of our trade'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

There are many books and newspapers - the majority? - which are nothing to do with gaining knowledge.

 

[JohnW2]

There are many books and newspapers - the majority? - which are nothing to do with gaining knowledge.

Well, any 'written' material, in whatever format, imparts 'information' - but I presume there could be an endless debate about what constitutes 'imparting knowledge'.

I think it's easy to be critical. Most of the 'VAT anomalies' that people talk about (electronic books, Jaffa cakes, PPE etc.) are presumably the result of attempts to make the rules simple enough to be workable. It would, for example (in my opinion) be essentially unworkable to have a rule that books (electronic or otherwise) only escaped VAT if they were deemed to 'impart knowledge'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

It is interesting that the argument is being twisted to suit various points of view. JohnW2 seems to be suggesting that someone is suggesting vat on books. I didn't hear this suggestion.

However, for some of us, VAT on paper copies of BS 7671 would be as much a "tax on knowledge" as was anything written in 1855

The IET electronic version of BS7671 is a different product. It is a year's rental of BS7671 plus other documents. The paper version is yours to keep. Electronic versions are generally cheaper to reflect the lower cost of distribution, anyway.

The real issue is that it is politically very difficult to introduce a new category for zero rating. We got the concession for print books by insisting on it right at the beginning. Now we would have to change the minds of a lot of other countries and no other country I know of has zero rating on books. (It is cheaper to buy a German book in the UK than in Germany.) And it is a dubious right anyway. Knowledge is free. Selling knowledge for profit should probably be taxable.
Anyway, for better or worse, we are being forced out of the EU. The UK government, while it keeps that name, could extend vat exemption to all electronic publications afterwards. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It would, for example (in my opinion) be essentially unworkable to have a rule that books (electronic or otherwise) only escaped VAT if they were deemed to 'impart knowledge'!

It might, but that was the stated reason for the exemption.

 

[JohnD]

Quite so.

When newspapers were taxed, it was a blatant attempt to prevent the common people from becoming politically aware and active (or as the Tory government of the time would say "seditious"). A one-penny newspaper could have a six-penny tax applied to it. Government-sponsored publications were not taxed. As intended, the result was that opposition magazines, and newspapers for the working classes, almost vanished.