Painting skirtings and doors

[WaveyDave]

I'm about to paint my house, going over the old skirtings, architraves, picture rails and doors. I intend using an eggshell finish. I've been advised to sand it to get a key for the new paint. I've read that I should use a primer. As I'm painting over old paint, is this really necessary?

I intend using Farrow and Ball oil based eggshell. Obviously they advise using Farrow and Ball primer.

Anyone offer any advice?

 

[NickStone]

Obviously they advise using Farrow and Ball primer.

I think you'll find that the primer is recommended for bare wood or plaster. There should be something on the tin about 'previously painted surfaces'.

 

[WaveyDave]

That's what I would have thought, but the advice leaflet that accompanies the oil eggshell on the site says -

Previously painted wood, plaster and metal – old paint should be well rubbed down, cleanand dry before applying one coat of Farrow & Ball Interior Oil Primer & Undercoat.

 

[NickStone]

Yes, I see that. Interesting. I could understand it if you were trying to put water-based paint onto a surface previously painted with oil - because that would flake off. Also if you were radically changing the colour of your skirtings, it would make sense to apply primer/undercoat. Maybe one of the professional painters here will reply to you. Failing that, I notice F & B have a 'contact us' link on their site so you could ask them what they think.

 

[Robbie uk]

Primers are really for bare wood or where the painted wood after being sanded has gone down to bare wood in places. All that shoild be required is a light sanding of the painted surface and any dust cleaned off and then apply the eggshell onto that surface.

 

[spice]

if your using eggshell, then you dont need to prime and undercoat, you only prime like Op says on bare wood.
yes, sometimes you have to undercoat, to get a key or depth, and especially if the previously painted wood is very old and yellow.
But, with eggshell, and satinwood, you normally dont need to undercoat, unless the woodwork is old, yellow and knackered.

Undercoat is normally used after you have knotted, primed bare wood, or if your going to use gloss as a top coat.

Just give your woodwork a rub down, apply your first coat off eggshell, when dry, lightly rubdown again, then do your second coat.

Dont forget, eggshell is a matt finish, and doesnt need to get the shine of for a second coat.

 

[Nige F]

you could use Zinnser B-I-N primer shellac based white sticks to shiny surfaces like the varnished hardwood doors I`m supposed to be painting here @ home instead of surfin`

 

[sunama]

you could use Zinnser B-I-N primer shellac based white sticks to shiny surfaces like the varnished hardwood doors I`m supposed to be painting here @ home instead of surfin`

Does that stuff really stick to glossy paint?

I am using Zinsser Bullseye 123 (water based) paint on glossy surfaces and it does not stick to it at all. Is Zin BIN any better?

 

[Nige F]

well, it`s stuck like the proverbial to my doors and they`re ready for glossing now, after the biN and 2 oil undercoats

 

[sunama]

well, it`s stuck like the proverbial to my doors and they`re ready for glossing now, after the biN and 2 oil undercoats

So you have used Zinsser BIN (oil based)?
And what was the zin bin painted over - gloss? Did you prep the surface in any way, like rubbing down?

Thanks

 

[lindsayg]

After years of being lazy about this I've finally given in and started doing it properly, and I have to admit - it does pay off.

First wash all the old paint with Sugar Soap.

Then if there's ropey looking bits sand them (otherwise don't bother).

Then use a proper undercoat for gloss paint

(I used to cheat and replace all the previous steps with one coat of emulsion. It's okay, but not nearly as good as doing it properly!)

And only then.... paint with your actual colour. Two coats.

One job I can save you - don't bother cleaning the brushes at the end of each day. Wrap them up tightly in plastic bags - you can clean them when the job's done.

 

[sunama]

After years of being lazy about this I've finally given in and started doing it properly, and I have to admit - it does pay off.

First wash all the old paint with Sugar Soap.

Then if there's ropey looking bits sand them (otherwise don't bother).

Then use a proper undercoat for gloss paint

(I used to cheat and replace all the previous steps with one coat of emulsion. It's okay, but not nearly as good as doing it properly!)

And only then.... paint with your actual colour. Two coats.

One job I can save you - don't bother cleaning the brushes at the end of each day. Wrap them up tightly in plastic bags - you can clean them when the job's done.

So you dont sand the wood down?

Also, I am going to be using satinwood paint; should I still use "undercoat for gloss paint".

And what purpose does sugar soap serve over plain water or water mixed with some detergent?


My main problem is that I need a primer that will stick hard to the old layer of gloss paint on the woodwork. Zinsser bullseye 123 just isnt sticking. After 48hrs I am able to scratch the (zinsser 123) paint off, using my fingernails, with ease. This worries me.

In my limited experience, I am finding that solvent based paint sticks better and was wondering if perhaps an oil based primer would be more suitable.

Thanks

 

[crj]

I always give woodwork a rub down no matter what condition it's in. If it's good then I'll just give it a very light going over, up to taking most of the paint off if it's terrible. Almost all previously painted woodwork will have surface imperfections of some sort so you might as well try and improve on it whilst you're putting the effort in.

If you do always sand then all you have to worry about is:

Any exposed knots - apply knotting solution.

Any bare wood (including treated knots) - apply primer

Once you have a no bare wood showing and a sound surface:

If you're using a gloss finish - apply undercoat

If you're using an eggshell or satin finish - apply a first coat, very lightly rub down and appy a second coat

Also, personally I alwasy use oil-based paints, primers and undercoats on woodwork, I think the durability and finish is superior enough to warrant it. Although I know a lot of guys are moving to water-based now so I might buy a tin and have a go again on a bit of scrap wood. I suppose these things are always improving.

Hope that helps.

 

[NickStone]

Also, personally I alwasy use oil-based paints, primers and undercoats on woodwork, I think the durability and finish is superior enough to warrant it.

I'd second that. I recently used water-based primer/undercoat (because the smell of the oil-based product gets up my nose) and I had to put about three coats on just to cover up the marks left by the knotting. An oil-based primer did it in one.

 

[Nige F]

well, it`s stuck like the proverbial to my doors and they`re ready for glossing now, after the biN and 2 oil undercoats

So you have used Zinsser BIN (oil based)?
And what was the zin bin painted over - gloss? Did you prep the surface in any way, like rubbing down?

Thanks

It`s not "oil based" it`s shellac based.......and the brushes need cleaning with meths.......or throwing away I use cheap ones....the bin went over varnish on 15pane glass doors....and transformed them