PARTLY REWIRED BY NUMPTY

[david451]

Bought my house and in process of a revamp, unfortunatly the bastid who built the dormers upstairs never rewired. The house has mostly new style wiring which I have connected to a new split fuse box with an rcd completly renewing all the 2.5 sockets 6mm etc but I cant get to a bit of the light wiring under the dormers and in the soffets where access is hopeless, in fact in there today and managed to knock a wire off the downstairs toilet which I'm getting pelters for at the minute.

All of the canvas wiring removed at the minute is still nice and flexible.

Anyway here's the question, and no drama please, blazing inferno stuff and all that. Whats the chance of a fire if I left this, the fuse box trips even if a bulb blows in the house so would I be right in saying a short would be the same. I'm not an electrician unfortunatly, an engineer.

And any tips in getting the last bit done, you bastids are too complicated for me you wired all the house in black and red and some of the blacks are linked to the reds and so forth, getting a bit lost at the minute with it, some of the wiring is run down walls but down below light switch level and wont be sockets and its lower level with a concrete floor, all the dormer light wiring was done only the lower stuff.

Anyway any advice appreciate the house is like heroshima at the minute.

 

[ricicle]

Have you tested all the circuits you have worked on, and the ones you have fitted into the new board. What were your RCD trip times.
What is the state of your earthing and bonding ?
What type of earthing system do you have and do the circuits meet required disconnection times ?

 

[RF Lighting]

Dunno, it might burn down and kill all your family and neighbours, it might not.

I tend not to be all that helpful to someone who refers to me as a 'bastid', just because you don't understand what you are messing about with

 

[david451]

Have you tested all the circuits you have worked on, and the ones you have fitted into the new board. What were your RCD trip times.
What is the state of your earthing and bonding ?
What type of earthing system do you have and do the circuits meet required disconnection times ?

I guess to test the circuits I would need special equipment, in terms of the earthing and bonding, I bonded all the pipes and ran a 6mm earth completly around the house to each junction box in a ring terminating at the fuse box, and the both this and the 2.5 and 1.5 earths also back to the fuse box.

When I first bought the house I couldnt find where the earths went to, and I think that somebody started and gave up before connecting the earths and bonds.

 

[david451]

Dunno, it might burn down and kill all your family and neighbours, it might not.

I tend not to be all that helpful to someone who refers to me as a 'bastid', just because you don't understand what you are messing about with

No disrespect meant mucker, it's more of light hearted way of expression.

Unfortunatly I was never clever enough to be a spark, theres a kind of big shutter that comes down when I try to work my way through these things without a drawing.

Probably worse at bomb disposal aswel

 

[ericmark]

The answer is simple fuse down to rating of wire used.
I found someone had made a mistake and thought a 4mm radial was a ring main and split the radial and wired the extra in 2.5mm the extra was all surface so changed the MCB to 25A.
The problem with ring mains is how they are rated it is considered that the max draw at centre is 20A and the remaining 12A is even in it distribution if you down grade you subtract from the 12A first.
However much we would like it to be different maths is at the hub of all engineering does not matter if mechanical or electrical. So you take the reading at the consumer unit Ze then find centre of ting and measure Zs either with a loop impedance tester or using R1 loop R2 loop method and work out the volt drop etc.

Some people seem to think we spent 4 years going to college in order to get a day off work. Sorry but no we had to learn how to work things out. Once you have been doing it for 20 years you get to the stage where you can have a good guesstamate at the results and one takes a chance that it will pass but that takes a long time.

 

[ColJack]

ok, windup right?
ran a 6mm earth to all the sockets and pipework in a ring?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

you bastids are too complicated for me you wired all the house in black and red

Black and red were used for several decades - millions of people seemed to cope.

and some of the blacks are linked to the reds

On circuits other than lighting ones?

I guess to test the circuits I would need special equipment,

And knowledge and understanding which by your own admission is beyond you.

I ... ran a 6mm earth completly around the house to each junction box in a ring terminating at the fuse box,

Why??

Unfortunatly I was never clever enough to be a spark, theres a kind of big shutter that comes down when I try to work my way through these things without a drawing.

Then why can't you see that the only responsible course of action is for you to get an electrician?

You say you're an engineer - what kind of engineer (in any field) doesn't know that he should never work beyond the limits of his competencies?

 

[mattysupra]

whats a 'bastid' ?

Is that short for bastard or some sort of name for a electrician like 'sparky'? Not heard that one before.

 

[ColJack]

I ... ran a 6mm earth completly around the house to each junction box in a ring terminating at the fuse box,

Why??

high integrity earthing BAS, you of all people should approve

 

[securespark]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bastid

 

[ban-all-sheds]

high integrity earthing BAS, you of all people should approve

 

[mattysupra]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bastid

PMSL.. quote from your dictonary.. a person who is a bastard and has a tiny prick with mincey faggot balls,

 

[david451]

you bastids are too complicated for me you wired all the house in black and red

Black and red were used for several decades - millions of people seemed to cope.

and some of the blacks are linked to the reds

On circuits other than lighting ones?

I guess to test the circuits I would need special equipment,

And knowledge and understanding which by your own admission is beyond you.

I ... ran a 6mm earth completly around the house to each junction box in a ring terminating at the fuse box,

Why??

Unfortunatly I was never clever enough to be a spark, theres a kind of big shutter that comes down when I try to work my way through these things without a drawing.

Then why can't you see that the only responsible course of action is for you to get an electrician?

You say you're an engineer - what kind of engineer (in any field) doesn't know that he should never work beyond the limits of his competencies?

I'm not totally daft, its just the awkardness of it, if the guy who built the dormers had taken time when he put the floors down to mark them or cut access holes then it would have been fine, the ducting is a pure fokir to try and pull cable through aswel.

I think we need to learn new skills and thats why I am here for advice, other than that I would have just hacked away at it, some of it is changed replaced with new wiring and it works fine its the stuff that I cant get to and wanted to leave, however I'm gona cut the floor tomorrow and take the rest out.

In relation to the socket wiring where you run it in a ring, why is it that you dont with lighting, and if you have quite a large number of lights possibly exceeding the cable 1.5 can you run a 2.5 around the house dropping off the cables for the lights from this, of would you run it in a ring in 1.5.

You said that the blacks are only linked to reds in power circuits, however some of my junction boxes have them linked red to black on the lighting.

In old houses were the lights and sockets in the same ducting, the reason I say this is that at one of the points the junction box with the light wiring runs down the wall below light switch level to socket level, I cant open it up at the minute because it is behind a radiator but I think it feeds an old blanked off socket, but seems to be linked into the lighting at the top in the loft.

I ran the earth in 6mm because I had a 6mm reel, from fuse box to all the heating and water pipes in the loft, all the metal stuff, the earths from all the sockets also ran back to the fuse box, making it ultra safe I thought, but you are shocked??

In terms of testing it just in case I have made a mistake a few pointers would help, common faults etc and how they present themselves, I imagine in the days when phooters wernt around you must have used another method.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think we need to learn new skills and thats why I am here for advice,

But not before you went ahead and did things in an area which you say you're not clever enough to understand.

And which resulted in you doing some very bizarre things.

In relation to the socket wiring where you run it in a ring, why is it that you dont with lighting,

Because there's no need to - the circuit cable is not undersized.

and if you have quite a large number of lights possibly exceeding the cable 1.5

Just how many lights do you envisage having? How are you going to exceed the capacity of the cable but not the breaker?

Unless the house is enormous would you have that many lights on the separate lighting circuits that you need to have in order to comply with 314.1?

can you run a 2.5 around the house dropping off the cables for the lights from this

You can use whatever size is appropriate, but you'll really struggle to get 2.5mm² into many luminaires and lighting accessories.

of would you run it in a ring in 1.5.

The only ring final allowed in the regulations is one cabled in 2.5mm² or greater (unless you use MICC), and only for BS 1363 sockets.

You said that the blacks are only linked to reds in power circuits,

I think you'll find that

and some of the blacks are linked to the reds

On circuits other than lighting ones?

is me saying quite the opposite...

In old houses were the lights and sockets in the same ducting, the reason I say this is that at one of the points the junction box with the light wiring runs down the wall below light switch level to socket level, I cant open it up at the minute because it is behind a radiator but I think it feeds an old blanked off socket, but seems to be linked into the lighting at the top in the loft.

Maybe it used to serve a 5A socket for lighting?

I ran the earth in 6mm because I had a 6mm reel, from fuse box to all the heating and water pipes in the loft,

Not needed, and the fact that you did it shows that you have insufficient knowledge - a situation of which you must have been aware, and therefore a situation which as an engineer you knew you should have remedied before you started work.

all the metal stuff,

What metal stuff?

the earths from all the sockets also ran back to the fuse box,

Well of course they did.

making it ultra safe I thought

Not necessarily. Possibly less safe.

In terms of testing it just in case I have made a mistake a few pointers would help, common faults etc and how they present themselves,

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/8.1.1.htm