Party Wall Agreement

[RonBowater]

My daughter (call her D) is in the final planning stages of a first floor extension which will abut about 1.5m of a wall of a neighbour's (call them N) house and about 7m of a garden wall both of which are on N's side of the boundary line. N's back garden is about 4ft higher than D's house so that the wall is effectively retaining N's garden. Having started to dig footings for the concrete raft foundations for D's new extension, it seems that the foundations for both N's house and wall are almost not existent seeminly being compacted flint (both N and D houses were probably built in the early 1900's). We called in our structural engineer who advised doing two things 1) drive trench sheets down into the clay along N's house and garden walls and then pack with concrete 2) change the raft design to be cantilivered so that the main edge trench is offset by 450mm. Of course, once the concrete is poured for the raft, the trench sheets will be held firmly in position.

The structural engineer advised us that we need to put a party wall agreement in place as soon as possible and that this is something for which a surveyor is required.

My questions are:

1) is a PWA actually required for this situation (where the walls under question actually belong to the neighbour and where we will not be doing any work on the walls other than driving in trench sheets on our side of the boundary line).

2) Is a surveyor actually required to do the work of drawing up the PWA and if so, why and how much will one cost ? I note that there is a sample letter in the government publication that describes PWA. What is the problem with simply personalizing this for our own specific situation ?

My daughter is a bit strapped for cash and doesn't want to spend any more money that necessary on the pre-construction phase of the project.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks
Ron B

 

[BREAKALEG]

There are diffrent types of party wall notice so you will need to make sure you issue the correct one or two or three depending on the situation.
Cost will depend wether the neighbour wants a surveyor at all, wants there own surveyor or is willing to share a surveyor with your daughter.
Your daughter will have to cover ALL surveyor costs and lets say theres two surveyors involved the costs if its fairly straight forward would be around £2k.
It could halt works for 6-8 weeks! You pay a surveyor if you cause damage you pay, you dont pay a surveyor you cause damage you pay.
Some of people would carry out the the works sharpish using diggers and poured concrete etc and if they neighbour even notices its a little late to do much about it.
My neighbour is a legal man so we had to pay out for PWA

 

[alittlerespect]

Hi

You could look at a slightly different strategy - consider some augered piles or mass concrete padstones which are set back a safe distance from your neighbours building line) then add a reinforced concrete beam across the pad stones which finishes just below the bottom line for the originally proposed raft foundation and then cast the raft foundation as originally proposed with a short cantilevered section utilising the ground beam for support. Or something along those lines!

Your architect/structural engineer will need to confirm the size of the piles/padstones. This should get you over any issues to do with a party wall agreement.

Regards

 

[ajrobb]

1) is a PWA actually required for this situation (where the walls under question actually belong to the neighbour and where we will not be doing any work on the walls other than driving in trench sheets on our side of the boundary line).

You need a PWA as you are excavating with 1.5m of a neighbour's structure. You also need a PWA as you are building on a boundary.

You don't absolutely NEED a surveyor for a PWA if the neighbour will agree without one. Remember, D will be liable for any damage to N's property. So I suggest a surveyor/BE to draw up a safe schedule of works and notify D's insurers. Speak to the neighbours (lots). Maybe they won't even need their dodgy garden wall when the extension is built. Alternatively, you could try just crossing your fingers.

 

[ajrobb]

It could halt works for 6-8 weeks!

Under the PWA, you are supposed to give at least 2 months notice before you start work. However, the neighbour can agree in the PWA to you starting work immediately. The PWA explanatory booklet gives sample letters for the notice and the agreement to allow you to do it yourselves.

If you are very lucky, it could all be done informally over a coffee. If you are very unlucky, it could take 3 surveyors reports and 2 months.

 

[jeds]

Just to clarify, you need a PWA if you excavate within 3m of a neighbouring structure and your excavation is below the foundation of that structure. (Section 6 of the PWA)

From your description, you are obviously well below your neighbours foundation and you are certainly excavating within 3m. Therefore the PWA is applicable and you should serve a notice under section 6.

If the neighbour is reasonable and they agree to consent to the notice then there is no need for PWA surveyors. Obviously the best approach is to speak with them, show them exactly what you are doing and assure them that the engineer is suitably qualified and that you anticipate no problems. If they are agreeable, get them to sign the notice and you can crack on. (you MUST be sure the notice is correctly completed and served though. Otherwise it could later be invalid, signed or not)

Problems only arise when they are disagreeable and either dissent from the notice or refuse to respond. In that case you must invoke s.10 of the act which means appointing surveyors. You have to give them the opportunity to appoint their own surveyor or they can agree on a joint surveyor to act for you both. The surveyors are independant so it shouldn't matter either way. Whatever happens you are responsible for costs of all surveyors.

Best plan is to speak with them and try to reassure them. If that doesn't work ask them to suggest a surveyor which you then agree to use as well. That will cut down on cost.

Whatever happens, you must try to get a thorough condition survey of the neighbours house. They could have all sorts of problems and cracks present now which they just haven't noticed. Once you start digging they will start to notice things and of course these will all be your fault. Record the condition now so you can compare before and after. It's your only defence if there's a problem later. This is really best done by a surveyor but you could do it yourself if the neighbour is happy.

The consequences of not serving notice; If you were to just proceed they could take out an injunction and stop you working. This would cause you delay with your builders and you would be liable for costs. Lets assume you get the work complete before any injunction arrives. In that case there's not a lot they can do and the injunction will be worthless. The PWA cannot be invoked restrospectively so once you build there's no going back.

All might be ok from then on until you come to sell the house and the buyers solicitor discovers there is an unresolved dispute over adjoining building works. This does put a stop to many a house sale.

Worse case is that the neighbour suffers some later damage. i.e. cracks, dampness, noise transfer, etc. Because you did not follow the act you cannot, in that case, gain the benefit of the act. Works under the act will leave you liable for straight repairs. i.e. a bit of filler and a coat of paint will put it right. Works not under the act will leave you liable for repairs but potentially punitive damages as well. If the neighbour is a sensitive type they can suffer stress, illness, loss of working time, damage to health, the list goes on forever. Some people are very adept at this sort of thing.

 

[ajrobb]

Whatever happens, you must try to get a thorough condition survey of the neighbours house.

I think The Party Wall etc Act 1996, gives your surveyors a statutory right of entry into their property to carry out a survey (in case things get nasty).

 

[alittlerespect]

Hi

If you go for augured piles you will not need to worry about the party wall act as you are very unlikely to cause any damage to the party wall and the party wall act only really comes into play where there is a likelihood of damage being caused - as with your trench fill foundation which could easily undermine the stability of the wall.

You will need to get a structural engineer to design the piles to suit ground and load conditions - other than that the size spacing of the piles should be such that they will not adversely affect ground conditions or have any impact on the stability of the boundary wall.
If needs be you could sequence the drilling and concreting of the piles so that every other pile is completed which will ensure that ground conditions are re-established prior to filling in the gaps.

Obviously it would be polite to inform your neighbours of the proposed works but to go to the extent of initiating a party wall agreement would be a complete waste of your money. For peace of mind you should agree with your neighbour to make a photographic record of the wall and both sign each photograph as being a record of the condition of the wall on such a date, and each keep a copy for future reference.

I would finally comment that regardless of what you do, the wall will be subject to movement both up and down, for the simple reason that the wall is built off a clay subsoil. If the neighbour starts complaining 18 months down the road that the wall is moving - don't go pressing the panic button - this movement has probably been going on for years its just that their attention has become more focused on the wall since the works were carried out, whereas previously they weren't paying attention!

Regards