PAT tester training

[Psyclist]

Afternoon all,

The boss has asked me if I could look into PAT tester training. I've obviously found dozens of websites and organisations offering PAT tester training, all claiming that their courses are the most comprehensive compared to others and to be honest, on a whole it gets to feeling a little misleading.

Can anybody on here tell me exactly what I should be looking for with regards to courses/qualifications or organisations to refer to? And to follow on from that what the best equipment is?

I'm guessing the training suppliers might try and sell me some testing equipment, but I'd rather get some independant advice.

Don't know if it makes any difference but it'll be for testing industrial and domestic appliances.

Cheers all!

 

[digdilem]

Discussed, in detail, very recently here; //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=271766

 

[ericmark]

There are two City & Guilds qualifications called "Inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment" one is to show you can do testing, the other to show you and do the admin.

To re-test equipment already tested once by an electrician using one of the auto testers is easy as some one has already decided what needs testing. However starting cold there are many pit falls. For example I found a magnet based drill where base was class I but drill was class II and it is so hard to spot this sort of thing.

Larger items like Fridge/Freezer also need testing. However with things like frost free it is not something that can be tested without some dismantling. The norm is to get a maintenance contract to cover items like this. If you are doing admin then you need to decide what items you test, what items are put under maintenance contract and which one you need to employ a specialist to look at.

The hand drier in the toilet is good example. Normally not on a plug so really needs an electrician to test.

The tech college tends to give best training they have no need to peddle their course and so tend not to gloss over problem areas.

As an electrician I have many times passed over the PAT testing to a semi-skilled guy. And it is a really boring job so happy to do that. But as I have already said taking over an established system is no problem but setting it up is something else.

 

[Heinz57]

Probably the two well known are the 'PASS' course and the 'City and Guilds' course.

I did the PASS course, its a one day event. It's an in-depth but simple course. The chap running the course was very friendly, explained things clear and simple and was ready to help. Plus he gave us his contact details at the end and said 'If you need any more help or advice with something, contact me'

As far as I know there isn't much differance between the PASS and C+G course. Accept I think the C+G takes place over two days, and points are put across in technical gobbledeygook rather than simple english what people can understand.

As for machines, well it depends on what you are using it for, how much it will be used and so on.

Use this comparison graph to help you choose:

http://www.pat-testing.info/PAT-Testers.htm

I would recomend the Kewtech KT71, its what I own, a great starter machine. Easy to use.

If you are going to be using the machine a lot, and require the ability to upload results to computer. Then the Metrel AutoPat is a good machine. I've used one on a few occasions, simple to use.

Here are some other links for you to look through...

http://www.pattesters.co.uk/

http://www.pat-training.co.uk/special_offers.htm

http://www.test-meter.co.uk/ (This is where I purchased my tester from)

And then this final link is to PASS, the people I took my course with...

http://www.pat-services.co.uk/seaward-3_pat-testing-equipment-1.html

Hope I've helped!

 

[Grizzly]

Accept I think the C+G takes place over two days, and points are put across in technical gobbledeygook rather than simple english what people can understand.

What laughable rubbish!

 

[Heinz57]

Why do you laugh?

As the end of the day it is down to how the indervidual perceives what is down infront of them, and how they understand it.

But I have spoken to numerous people who have done the C&G course, most of them do agree that things are put across in difficult language.

It'll just be the level the course is tought at. Remember, C&G would go far more in depth than other courses

 

[Grizzly]

Nope.
Everyone I know who has been on the IET-run C&G 2377 courses in London has found them very straightforward.

C&G 2377 itself is just a test to see if you can use the IEE Code of Practice, so your point would really be down to how the training is being delivered, combined with the calibre of the attendees, and if they are able to grasp simple electrical theory or not.

 

[Psyclist]

Ok, thanks for the good advice chaps.

Think I might look at the C&G courses locally and see what I can pull up. I know it's for work, but if at any point I move on, I think the C&G is more likely to be a recognised qualification since it's been around a while so out of the two...

Also good advice about the machines. Would be nice if I could somehow plug it into my laptop and keep the records that way. Saves me having to type everything up, but whatever. I'm not sure what to expect so I'll have a look around.

Thanks again!

 

[Wontdothatagain]

Also good advice about the machines. Would be nice if I could somehow plug it into my laptop and keep the records that way. Saves me having to type everything up, but whatever. I'm not sure what to expect so I'll have a look around.

Not sure about other machines but we use a Megger PAT4 with their software, plugs straight into the laptop, downloads results and produces a cert all in about 2 minutes. You can also upload the last results and use a barcode scanner to scan the old label, saves time having to reprogramme the machine.

 

[Heinz57]

C&G 2377 itself is just a test to see if you can use the IEE Code of Practice, so your point would really be down to how the training is being delivered, combined with the calibre of the attendees, and if they are able to grasp simple electrical theory or not.

Well yes exactly, it is down to how they percive or understand what is tought or put infront of them.

I do also just want to be clear, I'm not knocking the C&G course. The people I've spoke to all agree it was a good course. Just difficult.

 

[Grizzly]

I do also just want to be clear, I'm not knocking the C&G course. The people I've spoke to all agree it was a good course. Just difficult.

Fair enough. It's just that the phrase 'technical gobbledeygook' seemed to imply the opposite.

 

[razorback]

"technical gobbledeegook" A classic example of tautology....

 

[Psyclist]

Does C&G 2377 cover all the areas I would need or is there another C&G course code I should be looking at in addition to this one?

 

[ericmark]

In my area the C&G 2377 was one of three courses and exams one run after the other. C&G 2382 and C&G 2391 were other two. The C&G 2382 shows you can read the regulations (but not necessary understand) and the C&G 2391 (Also cut down version C&G 2392) is the inspection and testing of the installation.

It is unlikely any non electrician will past the 2391/2 and the 2382 only really teaches you how to read and although often required does not really teach you anything.

As to the testers I used the Robin and Avo top of range both slow and both able to down load results. But there has been an issue with down loaded results. The idea is one can blame some one who has the job of testing should they make an error. And in the old days your signature was the main thing to show you tested the item and considered it safe.

I caught my foreman on one job altering all the test dates on the computer where he had failed to re-test items. Although the sticker may have shown wrong date he could claim new sticker had fallen off. He could show HSE all testing had been done. This is a problem with computer records it is all too easy to change details. The testers seemed to have a system to stop anyone altering but they were Visual Basic records and anyone who can use VB can alter the records.

After that all records were printed and signed then kept for 4 years (Max time for any PAT test) with the hope they were never needed but if there was a dispute then they could be referred to.

So there is a balance between fully automated storage and manual. Manual machines are both cheaper and quicker. But the user can cheat. The automated machine needs the user to actually measure something so reduces the temptation to cheat. But with a item with a removable lead set it's a real pain doing same test twice once for lead and once for item under test.

Different machines will suit different people and firms. The course I did on one night get everyone to bring in their own machines so we could all see how the others worked. This gave the people who needed to buy machines an insight to how they all worked so they could get what suited them.

So I would advise not to get machine until after doing course.

The biggest problem is to know what to refuse to test. I have tested some really big portable appliances, the batching plant was tested by three electricians over two days. Around 40 man hours to test. Clearly not covered in the C&G 2377 course. It was done with manual machines. Although that was an unusual case somewhere there is a demarcation line where semi-skilled can test and where it needs a fully skilled electrician.

Do make sure your employer realises you will not be able to test all the appliances, there will be some needing a more skilled person to test them correctly.