Permitted Development of this?

[visionset]

I've read carefully the advice on the planning portal, and believe that my planned extension does not need planning permission. I'd like to get an LDC for peace of mind, but thought I'd run it past you lot first.

Does this look like permitted development? My council allows permitted development.

I also believe I will run into the party wall problem. So expect the route is lots of friendly liaising with neighbour and carefully worded letter to elicit agreement. How rife is the scaremongering by the party wall brigade touting for business? And will they be able to see info for my development if all I have lodged is an LDC?

What is the recommended course of action wrt party wall here? I don't believe I will go below neighbours foundation, but of course have no way to guarantee this.

Untitled

• visionset
• 15 May 2015
• 1

Anyway the detail.
The attached plan shows my house on the right with yellow planned extension. The pink walled house on the left is the neighbours that looks to be affected by the party wall problem.
The green area is a change of use from garage to living space.
Blue walls are coming out and are load bearing.
Pink wall is coming out and just supports existing lean to roof.
Yellow wall is new wall to split garage.

3D view perhaps gives a better idea of intended finish.

Untitled

• visionset
• 15 May 2015
• 1

 

[tony1851]

My council allows permitted development.

All councils are required to.

 

[^woody^]

Unless permitted development rights have been removed, or specific planning conditions exist on the property

 

[tony1851]

--------------s i g h------------

 

[^woody^]

What, people who browse the internet already realise that PD may be removed?

 

[wessex101]

This is one of those pesky "is it a rear extension" OR "is it a side extension" conundrums.

A sneaky planning officer could argue it is a side extension and therefore too wide to be permitted development. Bloody stupid rule in my opinion.

As for Party Wall, just don't go there. Major charm offensive on neighbour, wine, flowers, chocolates, whatever it takes to convince them you are wonderful human being who wouldn't dream of undermining their foundations and making their house collapse. A nice friendly agreement between neighbours rather than great stacks of cash to a couple of surveyors, unless one of those surveyors happens to be me then it is money well spent.

 

[visionset]

This is one of those pesky "is it a rear extension" OR "is it a side extension" conundrums.

A sneaky planning officer could argue it is a side extension and therefore too wide to be permitted development. Bloody stupid rule in my opinion.

How could it be argued as a side extension?
Are you saying they could argue that the new build part is on the side of the original house as it was before a garage was (presumably) added on, since it is not on the side as it stands now.
Or are you saying that the change of use of the garage that obviously is to one side of the house could be interpreted as a side extension?

The latter seems preposterous.

I guess if there is a real risk of this then the LDC is the way to go?

On the party wall front, I've seen advice that just says, do the foundations quickly in stealth mode, since the act can't be applied retrospectively and you are liable whatever anyway. I can then let the neighbour I'm building an extension as a matter of courtesy as since it (hopefully) is PD they can't really object anyway. Gives them an opportunity to comment or make some minor compromise on the above ground bit to keep them nice neighbours.

Not that I know them, I haven't even moved in yet

Thanks

 

[wessex101]

It looks like a side extension because.....

"the enlarged part of the dwellinghouse would extend beyond a wall
forming a side elevation of the original dwellinghouse"

The pink wall to the rear projecting part of the house on your sketch looks like a side elevation. If that is the case any Planner worth their salt would reject your LDC.

Your architectural designer should have explained that to you.

As for doing the foundations in stealth mode! Great way to fall out with the new neighbours. Why don't you just try being nice to them, they've probably never heard of the Party Wall Act and do not want to make a fuss if they think you are a descent person. In my opinion the 3 metre rule is just wrong so that is the advice I always give my clients and it usually seems to work. It only seems to get messy and expensive when one neighbour tries to pull a fast one and the adjoining neighbour gets all legal or there is an existing grudge between neighbours.

But that's just my opinion, each to their own. Good Luck.

 

[visionset]

It looks like a side extension because.....

"the enlarged part of the dwellinghouse would extend beyond a wall
forming a side elevation of the original dwellinghouse"

The pink wall to the rear projecting part of the house on your sketch looks like a side elevation. If that is the case any Planner worth their salt would reject your LDC.

Just to be sure you have this right since the pink wall is not part of any side elevation.

On this simpler plan

Untitled

• visionset
• 16 May 2015
• 1

Pink: Original house - 1950s
Aqua: Side garage & 1st floor extension - 1979
Green: Rear kitchen extension - 1985
Yellow: Proposed extension

I see that it is a side extension to the original house (ie if the garage wasn't there).

So the rules are applied to the original house, not as it stands now? This must be black and white, though I've seen no mention of this.

Though on rereading the PD guidelines it seems this is moot anyway, it states that side extension is part of PD up to half the width of the original house which it is well within. Or is the planning portal out of date in this respect?

No idea what I'm going to do about the party wall problem yet, just canvassing opinions.

 

[tony1851]

The yellow part would need planning permission because it extends beyond a wall forming a side elevation of the original house and is more than half the width of the (original) house.

(For Planning purposes, it would also be regarded together with the kitchen extension as one large extension).

 

[visionset]

extends beyond a wall forming a side elevation of the original house and is more than half the width of the (original) house.

Ah I see, ambiguities at every turn. I'd thought it was just that the part projecting at the side should be under half width.

Well that clears that up, PP it is. Thanks.

No log burner this (El Nino) Winter then

 

[visionset]

So if PP is required it leads to my original thoughts that it would be cost effective to roll into the application my flat to pitched roof conversion, which is an entirely separate project 2 years down the line, into the same application.

Can you do this? How do they decide where one project ends and another starts? Though in my case it is quite obvious.

Quibbling over £170, but why not.

 

[tony1851]

If it's all on one application, then once you have started the work (within three years of gaining the approval, of course) you can then take as long as you want to complete it.
So you do it in stages, as and when money is available.

 

[visionset]

If it's all on one application

So yes then, thanks, that's good news. I appreciate the 'significant' start required. In my case I guess it will be completed foundations. The roof can wait, hopefully not until the flat roof fails!

Seems you can get quite a lot for the reasonable £170

 

[RonnyRaygun]

How rife is the scaremongering by the party wall brigade touting for business? And will they be able to see info for my development if all I have lodged is an LDC?

They certainly can at my local authority. I actually had a letter from a party wall surveyor a couple of months ago touting for business because my next door neighbour had put in for an LDC.
Due to what I do for a living and being on good terms with my neighbour, I went round and told him not to waste his money on a party wall surveyor as the construction of his extension will not be an issue to my property. Other neighbours might have more concerns though, and your situation is slightly different.

The yellow part would need planning permission because it extends beyond a wall forming a side elevation of the original house and is more than half the width of the (original) house.

(For Planning purposes, it would also be regarded together with the kitchen extension as one large extension).

Tony, would I be correct in thinking that if the yellow extension stopped in line with the original rear addition, this would be permitted development? Might not be suitable for the OP though.