Peugeot 406 Brakes

[cwhaley]

Think I recall speaking to somebody on here who also owned a Peugeot 406, but I can't remember their name!

I think the brakes are binding on mine but have no idea where to start. The symptoms of the problem manifest after the car has been driven say 20-30 miles to get to work and is then used again in the evening. Specifically, the brakes will apply on their own (lightly), identified by the car pulling back and the brake lights coming on, and I've noticed I don't need to hold the brake pedal on steady inclines/declines. It also often feels like something is holding the car back and I've noticed my usual £50 top up is only giving me 250-300 miles so something is clearly wrong.

Unfortunately I only know about older single-circuit braking systems! So need to start simple here. Are the caliper sliders worth checking out and do the brake pedal springs tend to 'go' on these?

Car is a 2001 HDi 90 estate.

 

[Burnerman]

Peter N. is a long time user of these great cars!
I think a few checks are in order.....
Before jacking the thing up and spinning each wheel, go for a drive, apply the brakes and when the car has stopped, feel if any wheel seems hotter than the others....caution, don't poke your finger onto the disc
After that, it's an idea to jack each wheel up in turn, and see how easy it spins......then apply the footbrake and check again to ensure the brakes are releasing again.
Do you have discs or drums on the back? Some cars may have a drum handbrake but a disc dependant footbrake.
John

 

[cwhaley]

Peter N. is a long time user of these great cars!
I think a few checks are in order.....
Before jacking the thing up and spinning each wheel, go for a drive, apply the brakes and when the car has stopped, feel if any wheel seems hotter than the others....caution, don't poke your finger onto the disc
After that, it's an idea to jack each wheel up in turn, and see how easy it spins......then apply the footbrake and check again to ensure the brakes are releasing again.
Do you have discs or drums on the back? Some cars may have a drum handbrake but a disc dependant footbrake.
John

I love the car and with the yearly service I do, she's proven very dependable and reliable! That's why I'm determined to get this sorted as most other jobs I've been able to do successfully.

I've got a 15 mile journey home today so as soon as I get back I'll hold the back of my hand to each wheel and see if any are hotter than others. I've not noticed the car pulling to any particular side when braking, but the random application of brakes and the definite resistance to rolling freely forward clearly indicates something wrong!
Mine has front and rear discs, I'm not aware of any drum servicing the handbrake. It passed its MOT only a few months ago, although while writing this comment I've suddenly remembered that the garage had to change a caliper....!
Probably the weekend of 23rd January I'll jack each corner up and see if any of the wheels stick before and after applying the brakes, thanks for the tip.

Only ever really worked on brakes on my older hobby cars and as they're generally simpler, I've had much more success and understanding.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Peter N. is a long time user of these great cars!
I think a few checks are in order.....
Before jacking the thing up and spinning each wheel, go for a drive, apply the brakes and when the car has stopped, feel if any wheel seems hotter than the others....caution, don't poke your finger onto the disc
After that, it's an idea to jack each wheel up in turn, and see how easy it spins......then apply the footbrake and check again to ensure the brakes are releasing again.
Do you have discs or drums on the back? Some cars may have a drum handbrake but a disc dependant footbrake.
John

He is saying the brake light comes on too, which usually means brake pedal pressed, or not properly releasing..

OP - can you try lifting the brake pedal with your toe, when the brakes appear to come on?

 

[cwhaley]

He is saying the brake light comes on too, which usually means brake pedal pressed, or not properly releasing..

OP - can you try lifting the brake pedal with your toe, when the brakes appear to come on?

My fault, I should have said.... if I lift the pedal when the brakes apply themselves, they will release and the lights go out. Currently that's my remedy to the fault. Doesn't make for comfortable driving but I'm that used to driving old tubs I've got used to it.

Initially I thought it was just the brake light switch illuminating the lights, but over time the brakes have started to apply as well. In the summer the car would hesitate and 'lunge back' a little, but as I couldn't see the brake lights in the daylight I didn't know they were coming on as well.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

My fault, I should have said.... if I lift the pedal when the brakes apply themselves, they will release and the lights go out. Currently that's my remedy to the fault. Doesn't make for comfortable driving but I'm that used to driving old tubs I've got used to it.

Simple then - the pedal return spring broke/is missing..

 

[cwhaley]

Simple then - the pedal return spring broke/is missing..

I bet it's right at the top where you need the hands of a child to get to as well!

I did consider it in all honesty, but with the car not moving when stationary on a slight incline/decline I thought the brakes must be binding and just didn't even consider the pedal. I'll no doubt be stuck in traffic coming off the M1 later on a hill, so I'll pull the pedal up and see if there's any change.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I bet it's right at the top where you need the hands of a child to get to as well!

I did consider it in all honesty, but with the car not moving when stationary on a slight incline/decline I thought the brakes must be binding and just didn't even consider the pedal. I'll no doubt be stuck in traffic coming off the M1 later on a hill, so I'll pull the pedal up and see if there's any change.

It could be both, the spring and some binding..

 

[Burnerman]

For sure, a knackered spring could cause the brake lamps to be lit, but I’d doubt that the weight of the pedal alone would put the brakes on.
John

 

[cdbe]

Hook a bungee round the pedal and go for a drive.

 

[cwhaley]

For sure, a knackered spring could cause the brake lamps to be lit, but I’d doubt that the weight of the pedal alone would put the brakes on.
John

That's why I'd dismissed it originally, although happy to be proven wrong! I don't know if the system operates on a vacuum, and without the full resistance of a spring the pedal could be pulled down. I know that may sound ridiculous but my only real knowledge is on the old Lockheed single-circuit systems!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

For sure, a knackered spring could cause the brake lamps to be lit, but I’d doubt that the weight of the pedal alone would put the brakes on.
John

Nor I, but it's a start.

I have to lift my clutch pedal and waggle it sometimes to get the cruise to engage. It uses Hall Effect sensors on the brake and clutch pedals, with the sensors just kept in position by friction of the bracket they sit in. Release a pedal too briskly, the sensors get pushed too far and no longer detect pedal released.

 

[cwhaley]

Hook a bungee round the pedal and go for a drive.

I never thought of that! Wrapped round the steering column and hooked onto the pedal.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That's why I'd dismissed it originally, although happy to be proven wrong! I don't know if the system operates on a vacuum, and without the full resistance of a spring the pedal could be pulled down. I know that may sound ridiculous but my only real knowledge is on the old Lockheed single-circuit systems!

With disks, it will have vacuum servo assistance. It will only need a tiny amount of pressure on the pedal to operate the brakes.

 

[cwhaley]

Nor I, but it's a start.

I have to lift my clutch pedal and waggle it sometimes to get the cruise to engage. It uses Hall Effect sensors on the brake and clutch pedals, with the sensors just kept in position by friction of the bracket they sit in. Release a pedal too briskly, the sensors get pushed too far and no longer detect pedal released.

Would a sensor engage the brakes? They're all mechanical aren't they?

Saying that I have read something somewhere about this generation of Peugeots using sensors on the clutch being linked to the brakes.