Planning advice/consultant for the Kingston area

[Cej238]

Hi everyone,

Hoping you can advise us!

Last year we applied for permitted development for a 6 meter single story rear extension that was refused - no neighbours opposed the build.

The reason for the refusal:

Wouldn’t fall within the parameters of schedule 2, part 1, class a. “The proposed extension would extend beyond a wall forming a side elevation of the original dwelling house and would have a width greater than half the width of the original dwellinghouse in conflict with paragraph j (iii).”

At the back of our 1930s house we have a very small room that currently has the boiler in but presume previously an outside toilet. It’s about 1m by 1m.

Our architect said that most councils ignore this old stipulation but kingston haven’t.

Any advice would be great. We’d like to know what our options are before we go any further. Perhaps a planning consultant can help if you have any recommendations?

Thanks for your help!

Catherine

 

[wessex101]

Unlucky, sometimes you get away with that one, sometimes you don't, it is a really stupid rule. With it being an old outside toilet I wonder if there is any mileage in demolishing it (or claiming to have demolished it) and then re-applying.......hopefully more knowledgeable people will be along shortly to advise.

I had one recently where the client insisted on applying for a lawful development certificate for a proposed smaller rear extension under permitted development with a similar existing rear "addition" even though I tried to steer him away from it because of that side elevation rule and to my surprise the planners issued the certificate.

I guess that now they are aware of it and if they won't go with the demolition then your only option is to make a householder planning application but try to get some feedback from the planners first as to how they are likely to feel about it. Not much point if they are likely to reject it.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It's a side wall and your architect was a knob to overlook it. Ask for a refund.

 

[^woody^]

It's not permitted development, so you just apply for planning permission.

 

[Nakajo]

Historically, this was a bit of a grey area, with the wording of the legislation and the wording of the guidance leaving some room for interpretation. In the wake of a recent case, that loophole was effectively closed, so this kind of thing is harder to squeeze through PD now. That said, if your local authority case officer is a little behind the times, or if they're just not that bothered, you might still secure a lawful development certificate, without the need for a full-blown planning application.

 

[Cej238]

thanks everyone. Appreciate any advice! I’m wondering if we try permitted dev again but this time with drawings that don’t include the boiler room? Might get lucky! I’ve not done a full planning application before but would happily go that route if it’s likely to go through. With a different architect this time!!

I guess our options are: try permitted dev/ planning app for 6 meters. Or go out 3.5 which seems more acceptable?

Thanks again, Catherine

 

[wessex101]

Hang on a minute, your "architect" submitted a plan actually showing the existing rear addition/outbuilding? Freddie was right he is a knob. I thought the planners must have seen it on a site visit or aerial photo.
What sort of idiot does that?

 

[^woody^]

Hang on a minute, your "architect" submitted a plan actually showing the existing rear addition/outbuilding? Freddie was right he is a knob. I thought the planners must have seen it on a site visit or aerial photo.
What sort of idiot does that?

Don't you need to show existing and proposed?

 

[Cej238]

Hang on a minute, your "architect" submitted a plan actually showing the existing rear addition/outbuilding? Freddie was right he is a knob. I thought the planners must have seen it on a site visit or aerial photo.
What sort of idiot does that?

Haha exactly. Hence we are quite wary now, we need an architect or planning consultant to make sure it doesn’t happen again...

 

[wessex101]

Don't you need to show existing and proposed?

Not for a prior notification larger home extension and if you are economical with the truth you can "forget" to show it on a full planning application. Trouble comes if the planner makes a site visit, looks at aerial photos or looks at similar properties nearby.

I didn't show the existing layout my client submitted for his LDC but all the planner had to do was look on Google Earth, all the neighbouring houses had the same small rear addition, it even showed them on the OS site plan. You win some you lose some.

 

[wessex101]

Haha exactly. Hence we are quite wary now, we need an architect or planning consultant to make sure it doesn’t happen again...

To be honest you are probably better off doing it yourself. The information you need to submit is minimal and your best bet is to keep it as vague as possible so just give basic width and depth, maximum eaves/roof height etc. to keep within the permitted rules. A very simple site plan just showing the position of the proposed extension, NOT the boiler room obviously.

Trouble is planners are stupid but I don't think they are that stupid. I think they will check your previous submission and realise the boiler room exists.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

and if you are economical with the truth

That's not economical with the truth it's unprofessional and probably illegal.

 

[Cej238]

To be honest you are probably better off doing it yourself. The information you need to submit is minimal and your best bet is to keep it as vague as possible so just give basic width and depth, maximum eaves/roof height etc. to keep within the permitted rules. A very simple site plan just showing the position of the proposed extension, NOT the boiler room obviously.

Trouble is planners are stupid but I don't think they are that stupid. I think they will check your previous submission and realise the boiler room exists.

Yes you’re probably right. In which case the largest extension we’d probably get through is 3.5 meters do you think?

 

[wessex101]

@Freddie Well maybe if the planners did their job properly we wouldn't have duck and dive just to get very simple small domestic extensions through the labyrinthine procedures. In this case what the hell difference does a 1m x 1m outbuilding actually make?

I have a clear conscience. I would never bend the rules to try and get a bad design or something that adversely affected a neighbour approved. Plus I am always honest with my client and give them the option to follow the letter of the guidance, even if that guidance is nonsense. My recent client who wanted to apply for an LDC for instance, I told him until I was blue in the face that it wasn't PD and an LDC is a waste of time anyway but he insisted. He took the gamble and it paid off, we could have submitted a full application and it probably would have been approved (eventually) but he didn't want to wait 2 to 3 months.

 

[^woody^]

I tend to leave trees off