planning permission for extension on an unbuilt structure ?

[harlingtonstraker]

Hi there . .

I'm in the process of building a detached garage, have run my designs by
all my neighbours who are all happy with my plans, unfortunately the local
planning department dont see things the same way and have refused my application.

I can build a garage pretty close to what I would like under permitted development, and then apply for a small extension to the garage to bring it up to what I actually want.

My question is, do I have to fully finish the garage under permitted development before I can apply to extend it? ( or have even STARTED building it? )

I'm trying to avoid having to build a side wall to the garage only to knock it down again should I get approval for the extension.

any input most appreciated thanks

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Normally its best to discuss with the planners during the process before the decision date to see if they are inclined to approve it or not and then try and then get it through with some minor amendments, that way you can also assess what they would be prepared to accept.

Anyway, why do you think you will get an approval for it by building what you can under PD and then adding a bit on, if you will end up with the same as your original proposal?

 

[harlingtonstraker]

Hello, the planner was contacted by my agent , who then failed to discuss with me, first I knew was checking online to see it refused

I have had several chats with the planner since, and we are at odds as what works in the space, his idea of what I can do are much more restrictive than pd allows, and that my neighbours are totally happy with. I tried to compromise the design to suit him but all to no avail as far as the planner is concerned, his mind is made up.

The reasons given for refusal of the original design, and its relative impact to the space would not apply to the extension, since the extension would be 'hidden' by the permitted development building, hence my thinking there would be no grounds for refusal.


thanks

 

[cjard]

So, what you're saying is:

If I apply for PP for a garage 6m wide and 100m long, and it's refused I can instead build a 6x5 garage under PD, and then apply for it to be extended 95m backwards and expect to get permission because the 95m is hidden by the existing garage?

Curious logic. Let me know if it works

 

[harlingtonstraker]

errr . . . not quite

how about you apply for the 6 by 100, with full approval of all neighbours, which gets refused . . . . but, your curtilage is massive, so you can legally build 6 by 95 under pd in the 50 percent of your curtilage rule, you then apply for the extra 5 metres as it goes near a boundary and higher than 2.5 metres so needs planning, but now you already have the building, which screens the neighbours and anyone else from any issue that would be a problem with the extra bit, does it get passed? . . .

I guess you think I'm being unrealistic ?

my figures are not anywhere near your example, and my boundary in question is with scrubland and an industrial estate, nobody can see it , and it would match the already built garage ( or part built ) . . .

am I missing something obvious?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Yes, planners are awkward sods and the will not pass something they have just refused. Which is effectively what you are asking of them albeit building it in two chunks.

 

[harlingtonstraker]

yes indeed!
my conversations with the planner have already made me aware of that

I'm naive I suppose in expecting that he should have a legitimate reason for refusal other than his whim, hence my trying to go the longer way around in an effort to bypass him a bit.

whilst refusal would be annoying, it would still leave me the option in my example of reducing the roof height to within 2.5 metres to bring it into the pd rules . . .

my original question is, would it be thrown out / dismissed if I hadn't completed the first part of the build before making the application?

thanks for the input . . . .

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

my original question is, would it be thrown out / dismissed if I hadn't completed the first part of the build before making the application?

I would have thought it would be as how can you extend something that is not there yet. They will see through your cunning plan in no time. Which as mentioned is unfortunately floored anyway.

Why not just appeal the original refusal. It doesn't cost much to appeal it, if it is as you say then it sounds likely that the appeal would go your way.

What were the actual reasons for refusal ie what is written in the report?

 

[tony1851]

Yes, planners are awkward sods

Finally seen the light!

 

[harlingtonstraker]

What were the actual reasons for refusal ie what is written in the report?

loss of visual amenity for the neighbours / too industrial looking in design and materials / too big compared to the house . . was the gist of it . . .
the irony being I have the full support of neighbours and we can see several thousand sq ft of industrial estate a few hundred yards away

I have appealed already, this was dismissed for similar reasons to the planner, so perhaps I should accept I have poor taste in building design!
the frustration comes when I can build something bigger, uglier and more imposing through pd rights if I chose to, I'd like to try to end up with something myself and my neighbours already like, hence my lateral thinking . . .

not to worry, I have the cold dark nights of winter to perfect an ingenious plan!

 

[tony1851]

In a case like this, you can draw a plan and elevation showing the maximum you could possibly achieve under permitted development for your curtilage building; and then add to that a drawing of the house showing the maximum extensions at ground floor level that you could do under p.d.

This would be your 'fall-back' position, and if it looks worse than your original proposal (ie does it look more oppressive etc), then put it to the planners that 'this is what I could do without your approval and it looks worse than the proposal you refused'.

 

[harlingtonstraker]

not a bad idea Tony, when speaking on the phone to the planner I pointed
out several times that I could go bigger and uglier through pd but he didnt
seem interested, only cared that if going full planning that I adhered to his 'rules' . . .

I think I have come up with an acceptable design using pd, when its nearly done I might discuss an extension with Mr planner and test the water

all good fun!
I'll update here when I get to that stage . . .

thanks for the input everybody . . . .