Planning permission sillyness

[functor]

Hey guys,

I recently undertook the project of extending the rear of my house and decided to get a permitted development certificate. The rear profile of my bungalow is flush, but some time in 1980s it used to be L shaped and every bungalow in the area had a square infill to make the rear profile of the house flush. I am extending from the rear 3m, and the width is the extension is the width of the house.

The infill is 3x3 meters and counts as an extension.

According to the planning guys, and the technical guide page 21 - 22 - because the rear profile used to be an L shape and the 3x3 is an infill, my rear extension is taken into account as an L shaped rear extension which is 6m on the big end and 3m on the short end. Thats fine due to the new rules which allow 6m rear extensions... and wasn't the main argument I had with the planning guys...

Apparently, because it's an L shape it touches the "side" elevation and also needs to consider the "side extension" rules, which state it can only be as wide as HALF the house... OK cool. So what if I "demolish" the rear of the house to make it flush up to the point where we have a straight line of "original" house and then build a 6m rear extension from the flush profile of the original house.

Apparently thats FINE, I can do that. But they told me I REALLY have to demolish half my house and then build a 6mx6m extension. WTF?

Ok, then I asked, what if I make two rear extensions on each side, which don't touch each other in the middle (1mm gap). Yep, apparently thats fine too! (There was a case like that and it went to court and it's acceptable).

The worse part? If I go down the full application route, they will most likely reject with any number of excuses such as "Alters the original character of the house" or "Excessive development" (3mx6m is "excessive" apparently) and other quotes I have heard from them when I meet them.

I am basically forced to either demolish half my house and rebuild.. or make it with a gap.. (and then do a full application for an "infill" which they can't reject due to those reasons).

Have you guys had anything similar? How did you resolve it?

 

[tony1851]

Can you do a quick sketch plan showing existing and proposed?
Not clear if your existing projecting bit is original to the house or a later addition?

 

[functor]

Untitled

• functor
• 10 Jan 2015
• 1

The wording in the technical guide is:

Where an extension fills the area between a side elevation and a rear wall, then the restrictions on extensions beyond rear walls and side walls will apply.

 

[tony1851]

That would need planning permission.
The side-facing wall of the original extension would be taken as a side wall (regardless of whether it is existing or not). The 1980s extension plus your proposal would then be regarded as one wrap-round extension, which would be wider than one-half the width of the house.

 

[functor]

I know, but I won't get planning permission for this. (I went to a pre planning meeting, and they started saying crap about Original character of the house, Excessive development etc)

The thing is they told me I have two choices which I find really really silly.

Choice one) Demolish the bit I am showing above, make a single 6m x 6m extension. (This option is REALLY expensive for no reason)

Choice two) Build two independent extensions on either side with a 1mm gap between them (Here I lose 601mm worth of useless wall I could have for floor space)

Why would they allow such "silly" options yet refuse to give you proper planning permission?

 

[tony1851]

Why would they allow such "silly" options yet refuse to give you proper planning permission?

Simple.

They know it's ridiculous, and you know it's ridiculous, but they are in the position of power because they are the bureaucracy.

Unfortunately, many planners enjoy their little power trip of dictating to people what they can and can't do; they enjoy making clients spend money, and enjoy putting obstacles in people's way. It makes them feel important.

(Not being cynical, but just speaking from experience).

 

[planenut]

How about looking at recently approved extensions on their website to establish what is acceptable. Someone locally may have had the same thing but overcome the obstacles.

 

[maltaron]

Could you build the two extensions and after its passed and the completion certificate is issued. knock down the dividing wall and make good.

 

[functor]

Thats what I am planning, in fact but there is the issue of external walls being 300mm. My (best) workaround is to put some 2m sliding doors on each side of the two extensions, so I dont have to build useless walls. I already have the sliding doors available... But it's crazy I have to resort to this kind of dodgy building...

 

[LukeB123]

Surprised they have said you can demolish it and carry on - I've seen a few say technically you still wouldn't be able to build a 6m x 6m after demolition, because the guidance says "original dwellinghouse" the definition of that is "the house as it stood as of July 1948" (as my memory serves me)

It would still technically extend from the side of an original dwelling house wall.

I know a few seperate councils have taken a pragmatic view and allowed applications to be registered where the demolition aspect (asking someone to demolish something to rebuild it later) has been overlooked for the sake of pettyness, however I haven't seen any appeal decisions showing the inspectorates interpretation, and what side they err on.

Unfortunately, the legislation is written fairly poorly - they don't think these kind of things through, and as a result, people suffer.

 

[cjard]

Can you build your 6x3 extension rotated 90 degrees, extended backwards from the original rear wall?

 

[cjard]

The other thing, possibly a catch 22.. Mind you don't demolish so much that your house becomes significantly demolished because then they'll start on at you for needing pp to rebuild it!

 

[functor]

Yeah.. I am in the end probably going to go with two split extensions with a gap in between (1m / enough for a door). I'll put sliding patio doors on each wall so I dont need to waste 300mm of cavity wall I will break later and since I already have the doors. Then apply for an infill pp.. and remove the sliding doors and move the normal door further up to square the whole thing.

 

[Dils]

You could try putting in a prior approval application for the 6m extension and only the 6m extenstion the one you have in orange. Clearly state the existing 1960 extension will be demolished, and will not be attached to the side. and 6m straight from the rear of the house.

Once thats approved apply for a certificate of lawful development for 2 rear extension. Showing 6m and 3m extension not touching and separated by a 1mm gap.

Once you have Certificate approved, apply for planning permission linking the two extenstion. Also clearly state the prior approval and certificate of lawful dev have already been granted. They must consider previous approvals.

I know its long winded, but it has worked for me on something similar, and if approved you have 3 years from the date of approval to start it, rather than finish it by May 2016 under prior approval rules.