planning woes

Joined
22 May 2016
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
sorry about the title, it must be the most unhelpful one ever submitted. this is probably going to be a bit of a major essay too :(

I'm looking to put an offer in for an end of terrace house (it's a row of 3) and I'd like some advice on some alterations that the current owners have built.

they've done a loft conversion, build a fetching brick fence with gates at the front and put what they call a "lean-to" - which is L shaped and runs the full width of the back of the house and up the side of the house to the side gate (which is level with the front of the house). The back wall is just flyscreen but the roof is felt, the ceiling has downlights, the side wall that has replaced the fence with the neighbours appears to be brick and the floors are solid oak floorboards (as you can see, not what you'd normally think of as a lean-to). if the flyscreen was actually a solid wall, it would be a great internal area.

when I checked the council's planning site, none of these have been given any kind of permission - there's only the original planning permission for the terrace construction.

they've been there for at least 3 years and the front fence is road facing and the owner managed to get the neighbours to agree to also have theirs built so I assume there won't be an issue around getting some kind of retrospective permission for this

the loft conversion appears to be fine - except perhaps for an issue with the stairs. My feeling is they might not meet the standard for stairs as the treads are shallow and the risers appear to be a little higher than they should be.

my main concern is this lean to. I haven't had a chance to properly look at it yet but it appears to go from boundary to boundary - both the neighbours should have known when it was built and obviously haven't said anything to the council but after doing some searching on the web I don't know if the 4 year rule will apply since when the owners converted the side access to a room, they left the side gate - so from the front it just looks like a high gate.. I think if I were the council I'd consider it to be hiding.

I know I could just buy it and hope no one ever knows but what I want to do is turn part of the back bit of the lean-to by the party fence into a utility room. Assuming the neighbour agreed (and the neighbour didn't complain to the council about the loft conversion which is on their wall, nor the lean-to when it was built), I'd assume the utility room would be fine with the council since it won't jut out any further than what is currently there (which appears to meet the size limitations for extensions). The issue really is around the side extension.

my instincts are to run, as this looks to me like a drama waiting to happen. The problem is that the house is perfect for my needs and after looking for probably 2 years this is the only place I've found that I actually am interested in.

why is life never simple?

So, any advice would be welcome. In an ideal world I'd hope the council would just say that I could replace the gate with a proper brick wall/door and give me permission to change part of it at the back to a utility room. My fear though is they'd want me to rip down the side bit - which would mean taking down all the lean-to as it's L shaped and appears to be all one structure. Then there's the issue with the loft conversion and the stairs..
 
Sponsored Links
I wouldn't give up just yet.

It's quite possible both the loft conversion and the lean-to are permitted development and so wouldn't need a full planning application, which is why they may not be on the records.

The vital thing in this situation is they have a 'certificate of completion' from the council because this means they meet the planning regs. If they don't have this it would be hard to raise a mortgage, plus there could be big costs putting the work right.

I think when a sale takes place a 'certificate of lawful development' is needed too from the council.

It's unlikely they would try and sell the house without these because it will only come out at the conveyencing stage anyway, especially for recent works.

I suggest you ask the estate agent, say you are interested in making an offer but can they check about the certificates.

Then if your offer is accepted you tell the conveyencer about the extensions and the Party Wall and they will check it all out for you.

Regarding the lean-to - if you want to do anything else building wise get an accurate plan and you can ask a planning officer what the chances are. However it is possible all the permitted development is used up and you might have to make a full application, in which case approval wouldn't be certain.
 
my instincts are to run, as this looks to me like a drama waiting to happen.

With respect, my instincts are that you are being a drama queen.

For the loft conversion, as said before, that may be p.d., and even if you think the stairs are steep, it does not mean they do not comply.

For the extension, what's the problem? After 4 years, the whole lot becomes immune from enforcement proceedings, and it could well be that, in a worst case scenarion, that a retrospective planning application wouldbe OK.

Rather than run away, use the lack of certificates as a bargaining point if you like the house that much.
 
Sponsored Links
I'm sure I've heard of certain people who can go out and look at houses and do some sort of report based on their knowledge of buildings and stuff. I might be wrong though, but if there was such people that would be damn useful.
 
I'm sure I've heard of certain people who can go out and look at houses and do some sort of report based on their knowledge of buildings and stuff. I might be wrong though, but if there was such people that would be damn useful.
Hmmmm, perhaps you could enlighten us?
 
I'm sure I've heard of certain people who can go out and look at houses and do some sort of report based on their knowledge of buildings and stuff. I might be wrong though, but if there was such people that would be damn useful.
Hmmmm, perhaps you could enlighten us?

Tony, I've been trying to enlighten you and fmt for the past few years. With only a smidgen of success. :(
 
I'll have you know we don't all live in slums north of Watford, there are some quite nice properties up here, such as these:
cap slum.PNG
 
I like chirpy northerners. And I like soft southerners. But which is best? There's only one way to find out.

Fiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhttttttt.
 
I wouldn't give up just yet.

It's quite possible both the loft conversion and the lean-to are permitted development and so wouldn't need a full planning application, which is why they may not be on the records.

The vital thing in this situation is they have a 'certificate of completion' from the council because this means they meet the planning regs. If they don't have this it would be hard to raise a mortgage, plus there could be big costs putting the work right.

I think when a sale takes place a 'certificate of lawful development' is needed too from the council.

It's unlikely they would try and sell the house without these because it will only come out at the conveyencing stage anyway, especially for recent works.

I suggest you ask the estate agent, say you are interested in making an offer but can they check about the certificates.

Then if your offer is accepted you tell the conveyencer about the extensions and the Party Wall and they will check it all out for you.

Regarding the lean-to - if you want to do anything else building wise get an accurate plan and you can ask a planning officer what the chances are. However it is possible all the permitted development is used up and you might have to make a full application, in which case approval wouldn't be certain.

Thanks :)

When I asked if the lean-to had planning permission (I didn't think about the gates or the loft extension at the time) they said it didn't need it as it was a lean-to and was able to be pulled down but they didn't mention any certificates or approvals, the seller just kept pushing the line it was a lean-to and was ok. It certainly didn't look that flimsy though but at the time I gave it no more thought until I decided to investigate having a utility room built.

I'll go back to the agent and ask them to talk to the seller and see if they've got the two types of certificates for each of the works. I had assumed that if the council had issued the lawful development certificates for the works then it would be on their website but after having a look around it, I don't think they do.

It's such a shame that they haven't been above board with this as it is a nice house.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top