Poor pressure on a megaflo??

[ChrisR]

CroydonC well done for finding - well something. But that says it's a Proceeding claim, not a granted patent. There does indeed seem to be a lot prior art covered in the Claims.

If that's the case it's as worthless as GAH's claim to have invented the balanced flue.

 

[Softus]

There does indeed seem to be a lot prior art covered in the Claims.

Agreed. It also seems to contain some shaky premises and is appallingly badly written. If a patent is granted I think I'll start taking a very different (and less naïve) view of the UK patent service.

 

[croydoncorgi]

Anyone know how to challenge a patent application? Looks like it might just be a House of Cards - but if left alone it might actually get granted! Not a benefit to anyone, AFAICS!

 

[Softus]

http://www.patent.gov.uk/patent/opinions/faq.htm

 

[ChrisR]

They're supposed to be investigated by the Patents Officer. If you look at some of the recent deliberations there are some examples. If you look at the GAH one for 2 heat exchangers (equally woolly) you'll see a list of various "interested" manufacturers.
I can't remember what's supposed to happen if a patent gets granted where it shouldn't have been, but where I've seen it occur the issue gets clouded with minute technical differences cited as justifications for this or that.

 

[simond]

I take it those of you who are mouthing off about challenging the patent are not the same ones who doubted it worked in earlier posts on this thread?

I've taken some printouts on behalf of GAH.

Meanwhile, won two more accumulator installs today. May be I'm a good salesman after all.

Keep arguing chaps, you are the self appointed experts on this small part of the web.

 

[croydoncorgi]

You (Simond) seem to be 'mistaken'!
Seems you're quite content to support a patent claim which (on the face of it) is of little or no merit, simply because it's in your commercial interest to do so.

Well OK.

But the nasty thing about 'patenting coups' (as apparently attempted before by GAH - the concentric flue thing) is that they WILL work against you and everyone else in the long run.

I've NOTHING against the 'inventor' of the accumulator - IF he's invented something. That is, used his own skill and knowledge to develop a new concept or application. On the face of it in this case, he has NOT contributed any 'inventive step' and therefore should not be allowed to use the patenting system to freeze out other manufacturers.
If this is permitted, the result will be false monopolies and higher prices for the many, to the benefit only of an undeserving few. Probably NOT including you!

And, by the way, I was not 'mouthing off'. I was expressing an honestly-held opinion about patents generally and the (non-) value of this one in particular. Because of your reaction, if I will now actively look for opportunities to stop GAH and if you get caught in the mudslide - tough!

 

[simond]

I bet GAH are quaking in their boots. Are you going to tell them, or shall I?

Nice to see we have some patent expertise on the forum now. Forget the lawyers, here come the plumbers. Woahh!

 

[Softus]

something about sales

Regarding your domestic accumulator:

1. Without an accumulator, your mains pressure is 3 bar.
2. Without an accumulator, your mains flow rate is 18 l/m.
3. With the accumulator, you can achieve 80 l/m after running off 120 litres.
4. The accumulator capacity is 450 litres.

Is that all correct?

Is the accumulator providing more than four times the mains flow rate? If so, is it correct to infer that the accumulator is providing more than four times the mains pressure?

 

[Softus]

Nice to see we have some patent expertise on the forum now. Forget the lawyers, here come the plumbers. Woahh!

Best stick to sales - you're even worse at sarcasm.

 

[doitall]

No softus you don't increase the pressure

You store water at the static pressure which in turn boost the poor flow rate.

If you say store 50 litres at 1.5 bar, when you open a tap the mains pressure drops to say 0.75bar, the water stored in the accumulator will then top the flow volume up to it original say 17litres a min, until the vessel is depleted.

It is the reason why the accumulator has to be huge, and in most cases the gain is not worth the outlay.

Weight and space is a major problem in most houses as you need a room to fit it all in.

As I have said the higher the pressure you can store in the vessel the bigger the advantage if you release that pressure at a controlled rate, 4-1 Is the figure we try to get.

We have used accumulators for top-up vessels on heating systems where no mains has been available, pumping the water into the vessel with a hose pipe and pressure testing bucket, needs checking yearly and topping up as necessary.

And for the eggheads who are quoting boyles law, he was talking about the air, not the water that compressing it, the more water you can get in the more water you can get out.

 

[simond]

Just what is this bloke talking about?

 

[chrishutt]

And for the eggheads who are quoting boyles law, he was talking about the air, not the water that compressing it, the more water you can get in the more water you can get out.

Well, he (Boyle) was talking about gases in general, including air. Did anyone think otherwise? I don't see what point you're making here.

Also the accumulator does boost the pressure and improve the flow rate well above mains flow, contrary to what was said above. Although the accumulator doesn't raise the static pressure, it does raise the dynamic pressure when water is flowing. I did try to explain it all with my post on page 7 so perhaps anyone who doesn't follow the logic could have another look at that.

 

[Softus]

Just what is this bloke talking about?

You're very good with the questions, simond.

How about some answers?

Regards
S.

PS You're not actually very good with the questions; I was just being nice.

 

[toasty]

Softus,

With respect you are just clouding the issue, you clearly don't understand what is being discussed, increasing flow has nothing to do with pressure in this case.

What Simon posted is perfectly reasonable, he has increased his flow 4 fold, but the static pressure is the same.