Potterton Suprima

[doitall]

There won't be an MV Chris, the store holds the system water and the space heating is taken from there via the second pump.

Hot water is mains fed through an heat exchanger/coil

Pump one sludged up possibly the valves are partially blocked as well

 

[ChrisR]

There won't be an MV Chris

There might be an MV John. Various configurations ...
The one you describe is the simple one in my pic.

I believe there was a suggestion made that the guy who changed the pump might not have been as clueless as some were quick to accuse.

 

[doitall]

Not on the direct fed one there wont be.

Primaries will be connected direct from the boiler to the store, that is where the problem starts and stops.

Unless the inhibitor has been overdosed and kept high then the primary circuit and anything init stands a good chance of being sludged up including the boiler, pump and the pipes.

Only real option is to drain the system and visually check all the connetions

 

[ChrisR]

??

 

[doitall]

Nice drawing Chris

Why would you need a by-pass or MV, neither are needed.

The store reaches a temperature and shuts the boiler down on the stat.

 

[Agile]

Chris, the normal way to configure that kind of system is for the store to be maintained at 75° by the boiler using the first pump. That operation is enabled by the HW option.

The CH is enabled by the timeclock and controlled by the CH thermostat and takes the store water and circulates it round the rads as required. Presumably that pump is the one the fellow changed although its difficult for me to immagine how that can have much effect on the boiler.

The other inconsistancy is that the owner implies the boiler fails on CH. All the stored systems I have seen have not had a CH only option !!!

Of course the other variable is that the original installer had a whole range of options of how to wire it up and many of them might not be totally correct or include the pump over run connection.

Could we ask the owner to remove the right hand side of the boiler, only one screw near the top after cutting the power, and see if there are connections to the two left hand blocks marked appropriately "pump"?

Tony Glazier

 

[Softus]

Can of worms? Too right! And people wonder why we ask posters to go read the forum rules and the guidance for plumbing topics.

I've got the all too familar lockout problem.

How old is system/rads/boiler/pump, and which Suprima is it?

Tell us about any motorised valves and thermostats.

I apologise if I have not asked for help in the correct way, posted bizarre observations.
.
.
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There have been some really good, useful replies which makes me think the majority of the forum members replying have understood what I was looking for.

Clearly nobody did, because only later did BigD make this revelation:

There is a valve conected to the 'Albion Mainsflow' Cylinder

What an absolute waste of everyone's time

 

[Agile]

In this instance I am not really bothered.

From the beginning he always said that he knew nothing about heating. He has not really been dismissive of our skills either.

Some others ask for advice and when we give it to them they pretend that they knew it all along and seriously demean those who have given up their time for free to help them.

He is even starting to warm to Chris!

Tony

 

[geoff@cetltd]

That would be after the photoshopping, I presume

 

[ChrisR]

Nice drawing Chris
Why would you need a by-pass or MV, neither are needed.
The store reaches a temperature and shuts the boiler down on the stat.

Not my drawing mate, it's straight from the friggin manual. You can Read all about it! There are other configurations too. C'mon you can work out why a bypass might be needed!

Chris, the normal way to configure that kind of system is for the store to be maintained at 75° by the boiler using the first pump. That operation is enabled by the HW option.

Yes you are correct that's how they normally work.
However we should all (?) be aware that they can vary which is why I posted a picture of the normal operation and asked BigD to confirm it.

The CH is enabled by the timeclock and controlled by the CH thermostat and takes the store water and circulates it round the rads as required.

Well done! You know the gas burns in the boiler and heats the water up?

Presumably that pump is the one the fellow changed although its difficult for me to immagine how that can have much effect on the boiler.

Which is why I asked which pump was changed...

The other inconsistancy is that the owner implies the boiler fails on CH. All the stored systems I have seen have not had a CH only option !!!

Which is why I specifically asked if BigD is able to have CH without HW.... He has possibly implied that he can. If that is so it tells us he does not have the "normal system", see?

I agree there's plenty of scope for installation errors and subsequent botchery.

 

[doitall]

I have the manual on my DVD Chris, I also know how they should work and agree without the information you asked for we are ****ing in the wind.

However saying that, the pump between boiler and store including the connecting pipework is where the problem must be, unless there's an electrical fault.

The boiler cannot define HWS or HTG as both are controlled via the store.

The store without the MV is open circuit and therefore does not need a by-pass, and for the pump over-run most boilers have a timer built in or can easily be fitted.

 

[ChrisR]

You sed it won't have a zone valve and I sed it might, partly because there's one in one of the diags in the Albion manual , link was provided before your post saying there wouldn't be one... You never know, the guy installing it might have read the manual too, and stuck to it religiously.
Have all seen zone valves all over the place for dubious reasons.
Whether it needs one is irrelevant, there could be one (or more!).

We don't know that the boiler is overheating so it could be nowt to do with the thermal store. With the stat set so low, it's not so likely on a Suprima50. Plain ol dodgy suprima pcb still a fair bet.



Thermal stores sometimes need a bypass arrangement if the heat loss in the store isn't enough for the boiler manufacturer once it's up to temperature. Some boilers specify a particular figure which could only be guaranteed by a radiator. Some specify a length of pipe, etc, which is fairly daft but if that's what the manufacturer says then OK. Though I would have thought it perfectly sensible I've never seen a bypass into a HW cylinder as a recommendation, and Baxi told DRM about 3 years ago that it wasn't acceptable.
Once you have the bypass then, the need for the zone valve is clear.

 

[dames]

I have a suprima 50 also that locks out also. just started doing it very regularly. By chance today i came across a Potterton Heat Team van so i asked if they had any ideas. imediately they said you need a PCB upgrade. qouted me the price and part number off the top of his head. he said its a regular occurance. part number is 5111603

 

[Softus]

I have a suprima 50 also that locks out also. just started doing it very regularly. By chance today i came across a Potterton Heat Team van so i asked if they had any ideas. imediately they said you need a PCB upgrade. qouted me the price and part number off the top of his head. he said its a regular occurance. part number is 5111603

Those HeatTeam guys are the b*llocks - diagnosis without even seeing the appliance or talking to its owner!

They're boiler-tastic mate

 

[geoff@cetltd]

They're just playing the statistics game