power inside a bathroom

[xelaris]

I have to install an electric shower cubicle (no power shower no pump at this stage only a 12v transformer), an electric underfloor heating and an aquarium inside a bathroom. I thought of building a small box partition next to the door - this will include mains cable, rcd+spur for ufh, and spur for shower and aquarium....
All connections for the UFH will be made inside this cubicle with only the thermostat accessible from the bathroom area.
The mains cable for the shower and the aquarium will be chased along the wall perimeter - the same wall will then be insulated with celotex boards and then PVC panels - effectively, the electric cable is outside the bathroom area.

Any ideas/comments?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you know how to size cables given their installation method?

Will the cables follow the allowed routes?

Why do you think you only need an RCD on the UFH?

OOI - why do you want UFH? What do you think it's going to do?

What do you think is the significance of "effectively, the electric cable is outside the bathroom area"?

What do you plan to do about testing?

Do you realise that you have to apply for Building Regulations approval, and you will need to say what you'll do to ensure compliance with Part P?

 

[xelaris]

Do you know how to size cables given their installation method?

Will the cables follow the allowed routes?

Why do you think you only need an RCD on the UFH?

OOI - why do you want UFH? What do you think it's going to do?

What do you think is the significance of "effectively, the electric cable is outside the bathroom area"?

What do you plan to do about testing?

Do you realise that you have to apply for Building Regulations approval, and you will need to say what you'll do to ensure compliance with Part P?

whoa....I was looking for some ideas/answers and all I get is some trolling questioning, and some of your questions are "questionable"....why not UFH then? Do you want to open a debate about that because this is another thread...

there are no switches or sockets in the bathroom that's what's meant by "effectively" (safely? Get it now?).

I know about cable sizing and how to use them....

Regarding Builiding Regs....I've done most of that thank you very much....shall now remove this DIY Not entry in electrical since most of the electrical jobs needs to be done by qualified professionals then? No, I'm not a pro but very handy with most diy including electrical...

Did I answer your questions correctly? Now, can you honestly answer mine: are you one of those pro leccy who enter certain discussion with some superiority complex and trying to remind us all commoners about their place?
now bugger off.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

whoa....I was looking for some ideas/answers and all I get is some trolling questioning,

I was not trolling. I suggest you go away.

and some of your questions are "questionable"....why not UFH then? Do you want to open a debate about that because this is another thread...

Might have been useful to you, but since you feel like that, just go away.

there are no switches or sockets in the bathroom that's what's meant by "effectively" (safely? Get it now?).

It would have been easier to get if you'd said that instead of talking about the cable.

I know about cable sizing and how to use them....

In that case you know why it's essential to know, and why it's a vitally important bit of knowledge to check.

Regarding Builiding Regs....I've done most of that thank you very much....

But not all of it?

shall now remove this DIY Not entry in electrical since most of the electrical jobs needs to be done by qualified professionals then?

They don't, they just need to be done by people who are competent

No, I'm not a pro but very handy with most diy including electrical...

Then you should have no problems in convincing LABC that you can comply.

Did I answer your questions correctly?

You didn't answer the ones about RCD and testing at all.

Now, can you honestly answer mine:

Yes.

are you one of those pro leccy who enter certain discussion with some superiority complex and trying to remind us all commoners about their place?

No.

now b*****r off.

It is not I who should do that.

Goodbye.

 

[JohnD]

I have to install an electric shower cubicle (no power shower no pump at this stage only a 12v transformer)

I don't understand. Do you mean a power shower, or do you mean an electric shower? What is the 12v transformer for?

The mains cable for the shower and the aquarium will be chased along the wall perimeter - the same wall will then be insulated with celotex boards and then PVC panels -

If the cable is going to be wholly or partly insulated with Celotex, the bigger cable size will work out rather expensive.

effectively, the electric cable is outside the bathroom area.

why is that relevant? Do you mean it is outside the bathroom, or do you mean it is inside the bathroom but chased into the wall?

 

[xelaris]

something isn't quite right...my last message disappeared (no trolling no insults involved) - anyhow, I try to re-post it (maybe there were some java issues with my Opera browser)....


the RCD for the shower is already included in the shower cubicle (a modern steam shower with radio and led lights) - on my part I only needed to take care of adding one RCD for the UFH - please stop telling this is a wrong choice - it isn't and I've already installed (some people need to review their ideas about UFH in general and electric UFH in a bathroom make a very viable and convenient choice).

A point about the celotex boards....these are going to cover the walls once the electric cables are installed on the wall perimeter - then pvc panels will provide the final finishing (anyone not happy about pvc panels? Open a new thread)....so, most of the electricals are safely out of reach....still I'll leave some means of accessing them via screwdriver or similar...

The aquarium idea come a bit later (I haven't bought it yet - is going to be one of those modern wall mounting types)....I'm thinking of adding a junction box above the ceiling (taking from the vent cable) and leaving the transformer up there - that way only the 12v cable enter the bathroom area.

Another option would be to keep chasing the wall up to the aquarium area and installing the transformer inside a wall cavity...

All in all, there's a lot electrical stuff for a small bathroom....in fact I've just discovered there is a third option - battery powered aquarium pumps! Any idea/experience about it?

 

[JohnD]

I'm puzzled that you want to put the RCD inside the shower cubicle rather than at the consumer unit as is normal. Why is this?

Do you mean a power shower, or do you mean an electric shower?

 

[xelaris]

I'm puzzled that you want to put the RCD inside the shower cubicle rather than at the consumer unit as is normal. Why is this?

Do you mean a power shower, or do you mean an electric shower?

this is an electric shower with 3000w steamer (so, it can be compared to a power shower) - the RCD is part of the bundle and is incorporated in the power cable....

I though about changing the consumer unit...
Still, the UFH is already installed and working successfully with it's own RCD...not sure about the possible addition of an aquarium - another RCD?

 

[JohnD]

A power shower uses hot water from a cylinder, usually heated already by a boiler. It can be a on 5A spur, but a 3kW or higher fixed appliance should be on a dedicated radial circuit.

You say it is an electric shower, if this is right (the water is heated by electricity) then it will need a large dedicated radial circuit.

Having the RCD inside the shower cubicle will not be complaint, because the circuit enters the bathroom unprotected.

 

[xelaris]

A power shower uses hot water from a cylinder, usually heated already by a boiler. It can be a on 5A spur, but a 3kW or higher fixed appliance should be on a dedicated radial circuit.

You say it is an electric shower, if this is right (the water is heated by electricity) then it will need a large dedicated radial circuit.

Having the RCD inside the shower cubicle will not be complaint, because the circuit enters the bathroom unprotected.

The dedicated radial circuit is provided by the consumer unit (no RCD there) - still the RCD is part of the shower cable (not exactly in the shower)...I guess the shower is designed to be connected to a socket outside the bathroom (then, maybe this shower isn't entirely compliant with UK regulations as in other countries one can use power sockets inside the bathroom). I'm tempted to remove the plug and connecting the RCD of the shower directly to the dedicated radial circuit of the consumer unit....chase the cable in the wall and keep a cover to access the RCD.

 

[xelaris]

Just a point:
In my first post I didn't mention about the mains cable for the 3000w steamer...and stated that it was an "just" electric shower with a 12v transformer (in truth there are 2 circuits within the shower - AC and DC).
Fact is that I'm not yet fully acquainted with the newly bought shower and trying to gather as much information as possible particularly regarding electrical connections and ventilation.

Then there is the idea of an aquarium too...

 

[sparkybird]

If not all circuits in the bathroom are going to be RCD protected (which it sounds like they're not) then you'll need to install supplementary bonding or at least check that it's properly in place.

T'would also be much better to install RCD protection for the shower at the Consumer Unit as then you have the benefit of the cable being RCD protected as well as the shower. If it's run concealed in walls then this needs to happen anyway..

Hope this helps

 

[stillp]

I'm confused. Can you post a link to the shower you're talking about?

 

[xelaris]

I'm confused. Can you post a link to the shower you're talking about?

There are many clones similar to the one in question....this is one of them:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2013-...?pt=UK_Bathroom_Mats_Rugs&hash=item337ef529c4

Still, gathering information in advance isn't easy...everything come clear once I bought it....then, I shouldn't have know that being a steam shower would involved a lot more that a mere 12v circuit!! Indeed this is a "power" shower...

 

[xelaris]

If not all circuits in the bathroom are going to be RCD protected (which it sounds like they're not) then you'll need to install supplementary bonding or at least check that it's properly in place.

T'would also be much better to install RCD protection for the shower at the Consumer Unit as then you have the benefit of the cable being RCD protected as well as the shower. If it's run concealed in walls then this needs to happen anyway..

Hope this helps

That consumer unit without RCD bothers me a bit...there is no need for an aquarium - then RCD units aren't that expensive....
There is another option for the shower - I've just found out that the cable is long enough for plugging it outside the bathroom (by boring the internal wall)...seems a viable solution to me.