pump favours HW only

[mariaduffy]

Agile - what can i say? It never occurred to me that the valve may not be working and to try that test but now on reflection another test I did may have incorporated that most basic one.

On Wednesday I switched off the two gate valves I put the motorised valves into the manual closed position too. One by one I released them when the boilers heated water reached them. One by one the valve body then the pump casing then the next valve all heated too hot to touch. Then the hot water reached the motorised valves. I waited for a while to ensure the heat wasn't getting past the motorised valve bodies to the pipework beyond, before releasing them too. Would this incorporate the test you have just mentioned, do you think? If not I will try that test.

I wonder if any of you have ever had any dealings with a suppliers called 'UniquePlumbingSuppliesLtd' out of Eastleigh/Hedgeend? Amazing they are doing a WILO GOLD 50 for £27-ish. I could just use the head. I would rather use a 'known' name though but the one I had in mind 'Screwfix' only stock WILO GOLD RS 50. I would worry about fitting a whole pump or creating a Frankenstein pump. Maybe the RS is just a minor electronic mod....?
Thoughts anyone..

 

[Agile]

Do those two basic tests before your ravings get the better of you.

Pipes getting hot dont mean much. The flow could be very restricted.

Do the bucket test on each pump valve.

Do the pump spindle test.

While the pump head is off check the impetter is clean and not blocked.

Tony

 

[mariaduffy]

Okay Tony thanks -

 

[mariaduffy]

Hi Tony et al. I removed the pump head. One at a time I loosened the valves on either side of the pump. The valve that is on the boiler side of the pump was okay. Loosening it produces gushes of water into the pump body. The valve after the pump is (now) stuck in the shut position and the spindle is free to turn ad infinitum but with no effect on flow - or I assume on the position of the ball in the valve. Heres the layout;

.............@ : :
:... HW .......: :
:....CH ..........:
:.... X ..PUMP.. = ....
:

X is valve stuck closed. = is valve working okay. HW,CH actuators.
@ is a turnable cap on a pipe marked 0.1,0.2,...


I will buy a new gate valve for fitting. Is this a difficult repair? Should I drain down? Are there any tips of the trade when replacing these valves?

 

[Agile]

It all depends on whats on the floor and how wet you can get.

If its the ground floor and nothing to be damaged by about 2-8 litres of water then proceed as follows:-

Put on a thin white tee shirt and white shorts because you are going to get a bit wet, and try to loosen the big nut from the pump. If that comes loose then you are OK. If not then follow lots of advice on this site. That will involve heating it up with a gas torch and/or cutting a slit in it.

When its off then loosen the nut on the faulty valve and then hoild the new valve on your left hand and unscrew the nut fully.

Then take a deep breath and rapidly pull off the old valve with the right hand as you put the new one on with your left. If you are well co ordinated you will only get a little wet. If you are not so good then you may get quite wet!

If you have too much time on your hands you can completely drain down but then you may get air locks when you refill.

Tony

 

[gavinda]

:-

Put on a thin white tee shirt and white shorts because you are going to get a bit wet

 

[mariaduffy]

Its on second floor Tony and I don't know whether to try the 'wet' technique you espouse - which I know is also called the 'snatch' technique or the drain down.

I have all day but I quite fancy the snatch technique mainly because I like to take risks - not possessing a white t-shirt and shorts though I think I'll have to do it in my navy bra and panties - navy is so last season.

I let you know how 'agile' I can be Tony

 

[Agile]

I would never recommend a snatch change on a second floor although someone experienced could do it fairly risk free.

If you must then get plastic sheet and lay it on the floor and up the walls. Then fill the space on top with an old duvet or two topped by a couple of large towels.

If you dont have the tee shirt and shorts an alternative is a plastic mac worn backwards so there is no opening at the front. But they are even more passe!

One tip, never drop the old or new valve until one is in place on the pipe. You must have the spanner within arms reach as you cannot leave the valve to bend down to get it.

Another tip is to tie the spanner onto a nail so that its hanging in the working area.

I ought to write a book of tips, shouldn't I !

First Floor ?

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

Any T shirt will do. Skip the bra cos the padding takes so long to dry. Works best if the water's cold.

You could try Bungs in the feed and vent at the header tank. If you can stop air entering, and run some water out of the openable valve, or open a lower drain cock, you won't lose much water when you snatch the valve. Unless you're unlucky that is, and the threads on the old and new nuts are diffreent. Valves can also be different lengths.

 

[Softus]

It all depends on whats on the floor and how wet you can get.

No it doesn't.

...try to loosen the big nut from the pump. If that comes loose then you are OK. If not then follow lots of advice on this site. That will involve heating it up with a gas torch and/or cutting a slit in it.

Nonsense. Leaving aside the fact the heat is never necessary on the piddlingly thin brass nuts on pump valves, this is one of the many reasons why re-using pump valves is a waste of time.

When its off then loosen the nut on the faulty valve and then hoild the new valve on your left hand and unscrew the nut fully.

Then take a deep breath and rapidly pull off the old valve with the right hand as you put the new one on with your left. If you are well co ordinated you will only get a little wet. If you are not so good then you may get quite wet!

What an absolutely despicable lump of cr*p advice that all was.

FFS, just drain down and do the job properly - one new Grundfos 15-50 and two new gate-type pump valves.

If you have too much time on your hands you can completely drain down but then you may get air locks when you refill.

Ooh no, not the dreaded air locks.

I ought to write a book of tips, shouldn't I !

Er, no, actually.

 

[gavinda]

could just change the pump and valves on bungs. geld the valves and replace.

 

[gavinda]

btw to help bung the system turn off any bypass or balnce valves in on the system in the airing cupboard. and a thin smear of silicone on the pump threads makes it easier to replace/check in the future.

 

[mariaduffy]

Hi again guys - guess what ? No state of undress was needed. I drained the system and took the pump off. Then I poked the valve gates to see if they were closed when I closed them and open when I opened them fully. One of the valves remianed shut. I this morning changed that valve, employing the original nut and olive and the refilled the system. After much waiting and frantic bleeding the rads got hot - very hot - on both floors. So I decided I will undress after all and bask in my bra and panties watching loose women...

I owuld like to thank all of you who replied to my posts, particluarly the incomprehensible caffiene induced raving ones.

One last thing guys, there is now a poltergeist knocking like crazy when the pipes are hot... can anyone advise how to 'exorcise' it?

 

[Birmingham_Spanner]

I was looking for some comments regarding smartfit controls and this post came up. As someone who has been there and got the wet tee shirt it was great to read Agile offering advice on how a pro might undertake the work.

Then along comes this Softus know-nowt and decries all the tips offered to the OP and proceeds to systematically espouse amateur techniques to plumbing solutions.

Flame me all you like 'cos the post is old but hey. I found it with a search so someone thinks it's worth keeping open.

Now some may say softus is well balanced. I would agree. After all he has achip n both shoulders.

Here is what little he had to offer;

It all depends on whats on the floor and how wet you can get.

No it doesn't.

Ignore this and you truly shouldn't be in the heating game. Any job involves risk analysis and a muppet that poo-poo's this bit of fundamental advice will be getting his P45 from me with the ink still wet.

...try to loosen the big nut from the pump. If that comes loose then you are OK. If not then follow lots of advice on this site. That will involve heating it up with a gas torch and/or cutting a slit in it.

Nonsense. Leaving aside the fact the heat is never necessary on the piddlingly thin brass nuts on pump valves, this is one of the many reasons why re-using pump valves is a waste of time.


The point here is to get the f***ing thing off. Not re-use it. The thing is f****d. Needs replacing. That's money in "your" pocket. Don't knock it

When its off then loosen the nut on the faulty valve and then hoild the new valve on your left hand and unscrew the nut fully.

Then take a deep breath and rapidly pull off the old valve with the right hand as you put the new one on with your left. If you are well co ordinated you will only get a little wet. If you are not so good then you may get quite wet!

What an absolutely despicable lump of cr*p advice that all was.

FFS, just drain down and do the job properly - one new Grundfos 15-50 and two new gate-type pump valves.

I can just see the motorbike pulling up outside your house with that clever **** from rouge traders ready to chase you up the street 'cos you charged 20 times more for parts than those that were needed to fix the problem. Nice one. As long as there are amateurs like you Matt Allwright will always have a job. The Grundfos lawyers will help you out though. Clearly it was a Wilo pump that caused the valve to fail.

If you have too much time on your hands you can completely drain down but then you may get air locks when you refill.

Ooh no, not the dreaded air locks.

Now I admit you are not an amateur. You clearly have no experience of heating systems whatsoever. Never mind, you can keep Matt busy charging for unnecessary callbacks. Or does fitting a Grundfos pump never lead to air locks???

I ought to write a book of tips, shouldn't I !

Er, no, actually.

Just be glad he doesn't 'cos if he did your philosophy of if it it ain't broke then charge for it would would be out the window.




If you can't offer any thing better than "just replace the lot" then don't be a clever chops recommending expensive solutions and giving the heating industry a bad name.

 

[kevplumb]

2 years too late wiv a load of gob

jeez no wonder people say brummies are slow