Pyronix Enforcer - cannot get "Confirm Group" to work

[Kuchars22]

hi,

I have a shock sensor on a window and a pir in the same room, and I wish to trigger an alarm activation only when both detectors are triggered. I have set both inputs to "Confirm Group [01]", left the default 30 mins setting for Confirm time between detectors, and armed the system to test. Whichever detector I have set off first, both with set the alarm off immediately. Have I missed anything?

Thanks

 

[Alarm Engineer]

Confirm Group is not what your after.

Programme both circuits and apply Dual Trip in the attributes of both circuits, never tried this myself so you'll have to see if it works how you exepect.

 

[Kuchars22]

There is no dual trip option on the pyronix

 

[Alarm Engineer]

Sorry did not know that option was not avaiable on the Enforcer. What software version do you have (Software Revision)?

I take it these are both wireless devices?

You could try programming the shock sensor as a keyswitch to set a new area like D for example and put the PIR in D too. That way an activation from the shock will automatically set area D then an activation from the PIR will trigger the alarm. Not sure if it would have the desired effect your looking for but may be worth a try.

 

[Josh_365]

Sorry did not know that option was not avaiable on the Enforcer. What software version do you have (Software Revision)?

I take it these are both wireless devices?

You could try programming the shock sensor as a keyswitch to set a new area like D for example and put the PIR in D too. That way an activation from the shock will automatically set area D then an activation from the PIR will trigger the alarm. Not sure if it would have the desired effect your looking for but may be worth a try.

That's unlikely to work given that you would need to unset the currently armed area and then re-arm

Ultimately I don't think you're going to achieve the above. There is the entry shock input type which works in a similar fashion but that is used for entry doors only (page 49 in the manual)

Depending on how your bell was wired, you could change the bell output to confirmed (I have a normal bell and a separate confirmed output wired to a master blaster on my house )

Or put the shock on double knock if you're worried about false alarms.

 

[Kuchars22]

BTW I have V2.1, the latest. Apologies if you already know this, but under Input Attributes, the option Confirm Group is what I am referring to: "If inputs are selected into the same confirm group, each input will only generate an unconfirmed alarm (and will not generate a confirmed activation). This is useful when two or more shock sensors are being activated by the same event."

In my case, I am using one shock sensor and one PIR, and was expecting both needed to be triggered to become a confirmed alarm (within the configured 30 mins Confirm Time set elsewhere in the menu).

Under the menu option: "Alarm Responses", there is a sub menu called "Silent 1st Alarm": If this function is selected as 'If confirm', then the first alarm to be activated on the system will be silent, but only if another input activates (such as a confirmed alarm) then the alarm will activate and the alarm tones will be heard".

This is set to No on my panel, so I may try this tomorrow.

On a separate query, I can't find the definition of "Day Alarm" - is this where a detector may be configured for something other than a full alarm bells, perhaps in a non-intruder type detector?

 

[Josh_365]

BTW I have V2.1, the latest. Apologies if you already know this, but under Input Attributes, the option Confirm Group is what I am referring to: "If inputs are selected into the same confirm group, each input will only generate an unconfirmed alarm (and will not generate a confirmed activation). This is useful when two or more shock sensors are being activated by the same event."

In my case, I am using one shock sensor and one PIR, and was expecting both needed to be triggered to become a confirmed alarm (within the configured 30 mins Confirm Time set elsewhere in the menu).

Under the menu option: "Alarm Responses", there is a sub menu called "Silent 1st Alarm": If this function is selected as 'If confirm', then the first alarm to be activated on the system will be silent, but only if another input activates (such as a confirmed alarm) then the alarm will activate and the alarm tones will be heard".

This is set to No on my panel, so I may try this tomorrow.

On a separate query, I can't find the definition of "Day Alarm" - is this where a detector may be configured for something other than a full alarm bells, perhaps in a non-intruder type detector?

Avoid silent first alarm. It gives Mr Burglar some extra time before the system goes into alarm.

If you're going down the confirmed alarm route, you need to make sure the panel is setup correctly. There's a few other options that may need changing. Confirmation on entry (manual explains this) and confirm group. The groups needs setting up correctly.

Day alarm, usually used for things that needs monitoring 24hrs, fire doors are quite common.

I really don't know why you're going down this route though. Plenty of other options if you're wanting to reduce false alarms.......

 

[Kuchars22]

Why wouldn't you go down this route, is there a flaw in this setup? What are the other options with my panel?

 

[Josh_365]

What's the reasoning behind wanting both detectors to activate before triggering an alarm?

 

[Kuchars22]

You raised the concern first - after you...then I'll tell you why

 

[Josh_365]

I can't help you if I don't know what you're trying to achieve......

 

[Kuchars22]

As the manual suggests (pointed out earlier), it's "useful when two or more shock sensors are being activated by the same event". However, I'd like to use the shock AND pir in my situation, as I don't have two shock sensors in the same area. The shock will be on the window (perimeter) and the PIR is internal. If just the shock is activated, then it will either be a "false alarm" or an actual intruder. If both go off (not at the same time, but possibly could), then there is a likelihood that it's not a false alarm.

Much as the same way as a Dual PIR or Quad PIR works in principle - need two detectors to confirm an alarm. That's what I am trying to achieve. So what's the issue with this principle?

 

[sparkymarka]

Why bother fitting the shock sensor in the first place ? The idea of shock sensors is for perimeter protection before they get in ???

 

[Josh_365]

If you're worried about the PIR false alarming, adjust the pulse count or swap for a dual tech.

If you're worried about the shock false alarming, set to double Knock.

Job done.

The confirmation stuff is for sending a confirmed alarm to the monitoring station, which isn't applicable in your case.

 

[Kuchars22]

It's set to double knock already. I had an idea that it was supposed to be for that, but I thought I would get the answer straight away.