Rads slow to heat up after new boiler install

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First post on here, Hi everyone.

I have just had my boiler replaced along with some rads repiped and a change of design to a sealed system. The old boiler was a very old Potterton netaheat that struggled to warm the house especially if someone had a bath and the hot tank needed reheating. The system also used to draw in a hell of a lot of air as it was piped wrong into the loft according to all the installers who came and looked at it prior to quoting, you could bleed all the rads and run the system and hear bubbles gurgling through the pipes like no tomorrow.

The rads were all piped using dual entry rad valves and 8mm microbore with the exception of 2 that were in the extension built in the 80's, these were on 15mm copper. The new boiler is a WB Greenstar CDi30.

The problem I perceive is this, when you fire up the heating from cold, the rads take 15-20 mins for the heat to start coming through and a further 20 minutes for the bottom of the rads to warm up. Its not sludge as the whole system was powerflushed and one of the rads is brand new.

The installers replaced the 8mm microbore downstairs with 10mm plastic pipe (not sure why they did not use 15mm) and changed all the dual entry rad valves over to TRV and lockshield.

Could the problem be the pump, could all those years trying to pump with large volumes of air have worn it out (grundfoss 15/50) ?

Will monitor this thread and reply to further questions if I have missed something but a little peeved cos I expected the heat of the rads to be far greater after all this work.
 
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How much effort did the installers take to clean out the radiators?
 
How is it wired in, if it is not right and does not have a permenantl live to it, everytime it comes on it will do a 15 minute self check on low gas , so rads would take ages to heat up,
Possibly even board faulty and doing it, signs are pump starts and stops every few minutes
 
We could do with some more details. Do you have an S plan or Y plan system or something else? You've spent nearly a grand on materials alone and nobody changed a 50 quid pump?

When the heating comes on check the rads and see if one gets very hot very quickly. This would indicate the system needs balancing.

There could also be an old bypass in the system that's incorrectly set.

More info please!
Cheers
Daz.
 
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Why do you need that info dazz its a combi
Sorry I missed the sealed part of the OP but he doesn't say the boiler is a combi. This boiler comes in a number of types i.e. conventional, system and combi.
 
Guys,

its not a combi, system boiler I think as there's stored hot water. Installers reckoned original pump would be ok.

No one rad gets hot quickly, they all seem to take some time.

Apparently, they used a power flusher for 5 hours to clean out the system. I saw the water when they drained it down and it was black, the magnetic pen thing soon furred up when placed in the draining water. For info, last winter I put in a half litre of fernox sludge killer on recommendation of a friend "in the know"

Whats the difference between Y plan and S plan ?
 
Guys,

its not a combi, system boiler I think as there's stored hot water. Installers reckoned original pump would be ok.

No one rad gets hot quickly, they all seem to take some time.

Apparently, they used a power flusher for 5 hours to clean out the system. I saw the water when they drained it down and it was black, the magnetic pen thing soon furred up when placed in the draining water. For info, last winter I put in a half litre of fernox sludge killer on recommendation of a friend "in the know"

Whats the difference between Y plan and S plan ?

One has a mid-position motorised valve and the other (S) has two motorised valves and is a far better system, IMO, and doesn't require a by pass the Y plan does.

Can't believe, either, that your installer didn't change the pump. That's the first thing I would be looking at doing.
 
Tony,

its thus a Y plan, its got a mid position motorised Honeywell valve.

I have only just had the system installed and just got the invoice. In light of the above observations, should I insist on a new pump and add the cost of parts only, my thinking being that they should of strongly recommended a change initially. ? OR........

Pay a percentage of the invoice and get them to come back and get the system running properly prior to settling in full ?
 
You've got them by the short and curlies! Get them back to investigate the problem .
You could insist on getting the pump changed. If the pumps has got isolation valves it shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to change.
However the problem could be the 3 port valve. It might not be sending the hot water from the boiler to the central heating and instead is sending it to the cylinder. As a quick check, when the system has been turn off for a few hours, the flow and return pipes to the cylinder should be coolish. On the programmer make sure the hot water is turned off and turn on the central heating. If the flow and return pipes to the cylinder get red hot then you've probably got a problem with the 3 port valve.

Cheers
Daz.
 
Glad you've not paid them yet, as it makes your life a bit easier now. At present it's not fit for purpose, and they need to get it up to full working capacity before they can say that's it's been installed properly. Out of idle curiousity, was it a British Gas installation?
 
Daz,

the 3 port valve was replaced as part of the install so probably not that. Isolators are fitted either side of the pump so all good there if required to change.

No, it was not BG who did the job, it was a local firm who were supposedly OK according to a friend in the building trade.

To be fair, the install was completed late on a friday and they probably wanted to get away for the weekend so did not thoroughly test the rads, balance them or do a pump test but.........I paid to have the system upgraded, its not working as well as expected so i will call them back. Happy to pay for the cost of parts thus far and the cost of a new pump as that was not in the quote but will with hold the labour element until its all working.

cheers for all the advice thus far, will keep you posted.
 
Apart from the pump being suspect, there could also be a permanently open bypass which would take flow away from the rads.
Do you have the ch and dhw on at the same time? Does the pipe to the cylinder get hot when the selector is set for ch only?
 
Did they do the powerflush before they repiped it of after, even if they did it after upgrading to 10 mm, it's still a lot to expect that they can clean the rads properly through that. I wouldn't mind betting that the rads are still full of cr*p.
 
Still inclined to think its wired wrong , and boiler is doing 15 minute(minimum) self check, when the rads eventually get hot do they all get hot and up to a tempreture you expect
 

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