rain water coming thru ceiling latest developments

[oldgirl]

Hello all. Wasn't sure if I should continue with my first post re above. So I apologise in advance for restarting the same as a new post.
I called 10 roofers from the nfrc website and only one person answered the phone. Have left msgs for others but no luck so far. This one roofer came, looked out from dormer window, from outside and the actual room where the water has come thru. He said that it is the valley. There is just one Valley at the front. He says that this is because the roof is old. It's wear and tear according to him. I did get in touch with insurance company and they told me to ascertain the cause and if it's due to this weather they are happy to pay. They also said that only one quote is necessary but for building work in the house I will have to provide two quotes.
I felt that this roofer is reluctant to say that is due to weather. As I have said before we did have a leakage some yrs ago again during similar circumstances. My husband fixed it. No idea what he did but we have had no problem since then until now.
See the pictures of the house Pl. The water comes in the room below the attic room.
He is also registered with checkatrade.i looked him up and he is highly rated in terms of workmanship, quality and pricing.
I'm a bit worked up because the small bulge in the ceiling is really big now and bits of plaster hv fallen. With bleak weather forecast I'm very afraid.
The way I feel at present is that let him give me a quote and ask him to carry out the work.i think allbuilders n roofers are busy with work right now bcause of damage due to recent weather. I did ask for a rough idea of cost. He said about £1100.
Any comments welcome.

 

[Burnerman]

Indeed, its very difficult for us to say from here, but there does seem to be evidence of water coming down the valley and coursing down the wall tiles rather than going into the gutter. The roof does look elderly but the purpose of the leaded valley is to collect the rain from the main roof and the gable on the right.....if the valley is split or the rain is backing up (maybe due to a gutter blockage) then the water will surely head inside.
When it rains, does water drip from behind the gutter, or flow over the top by any chance?
John

 

[oldgirl]

I have checked gutters during rain and I don't think I've seen any overflow. I can hear the water going in the gulley at ground level.i had gutters cleaned in summer. Don't think down pipe was cleaned.I've looked at gutters from top floor and they appear ok.
Yes the roof is old. I think it's original. The house is suppose to be Edwardian so is at least 100yrs old. We have Bn here 20yrs.My husband told me that all roof metal is lead.i have vague recollection that my husband went in the loft to fix the problem. I think he said at one time that he wanted to break out bit of wall to get a proper look at the roof in that area as the space in the loft between roof and attic wall is quite narrow. He didn't do this bcause whatever repair he did worked so it was forgotten. My husband knows a lot about buildings being a civil engineer. now I'm relying upon Web communities and people like you to advise me.
I've just read under roof section that if it is the valley that it should b removed and replaced with new lead and cemented.i did say to the roofer to inspect for any missing tiles or anything else that needs doing since he will need to put up scaffolding. I'm also thinking whether the dormer window area should be inspected for any faults. Mind you the attic rooms are fine and we hv had no problems there.Just thinking as you noticed the roof is quite uneven. Some years ago my husband had the roof tiles checked out and repaired as necessary.

 

[jj4091]

It is impossible to say from the pics if the problem is faulty lead work but it does appear to be damaged at the bottom of the valley. I think you have just 2 options, put your trust in this guy & hope he can sort out a notoriously difficult problem to resolve or ask for a price to replace the lead work, strip, re-felt & batten & refit the tiles on that elevation, which is probably the only guaranteed way.

 

[Burnerman]

I have to agree with jj - if the valley is faulty with splits in the lead, then the water will pour through. The only other issue is that if the cement that should be between the tiles and the lead is missing (as it often is) then that should be made good.......its where the birds get through in the nesting season anyway.
I think you have to trust your roofers honesty and integrity on this one.
John

 

[oldgirl]

Thank you burnerman and jj4091. I've just had one other nfrc roofer come in and said exactly what the first roofer said. He said something about felt, cement ,broken tiles and it appears that b4 we came someone had repaired valley but badly. He said total replacement with lead etc. Sorry was bit technical n didn't quite understand. But it sounded good very much what you two have said and what I read under the roof section of this site.
Both of them are going to email me with scope of work and estimates. 2nd roofer warmed me that he is v busy but was surprised that I've had poor response. The 1st roofer can start work late next week.
Will keep informed. Again thank you so much

 

[jj4091]

You're welcome, it is nice to be acknowledged, I hope everything gets sorted for you.

 

[oldgirl]

Hi all. The 1st builder has given me a written quote of £1598 Inc vat (£1332 +266vat). He can start work on Thursday this week if I accept now as he can then order scaffolding via his scaffolder. Also he did say on Friday that if i give him go ahead once i get his quote he can start work late this week. To b fair I did give the impression that I'll b giving him the work as at that time he was the only one. He is happy to wait but then work will start next week Not this week.
Should I wait for the quote from second builder? 2nd builder did warn me that they had a lot of work right now.i felt comfortable with them both.
Does this quote seem reasonable? He will b putting a new 18" lead valley, bed in tiles and Ridge tiles with 4:1 mortar. Strange thing is that I had asked a builder 3 months ago to do work on the porch and his quote was £850.i asked this builder to quote for it as then they can all b done in one go. He has quoted £851!!

 

[oldgirl]

Ps. If he does the work now then with this current weather I'll find out whether it stops the water coming in! He will also replace any missing tiles from front elevation. What do you think?

 

[Burnerman]

What can we say......without getting a few quotes its difficult to give an opinion, but only personally speaking it sounds fine to me - particularly so where there is scaffolding involved.
Presumably he will renew the lead valley right up to the top, make good the gaps between tile and lead with sand and cement, and see to the ridge tile pointing too.
Any damaged roof tiles need to be replaced at the same time, and any remedial work to the guttering sorted.....presumably the roofer has seen the results of the water ingress, so he's fairly happy that he can cure it!
A few things you may want to ascertain (without sounding too clever ) the edges of the lead should be rolled over to cast blown water into the valley, and naturally to allow for expansion the lead won't be laid in one length. Ask him to check for deterioration on the tile laths (thats the timber strips that the tiles are nailed or nibbed onto).
Liaise with your insurers so they know whats happening.
Do be lucky with this.....at least the work that needs doing will be done, and we sincerely hope this will sort things. Mind you, with this weather, every roof / window / flashing has its work cut out to keep the rain at bay!
John

 

[oldgirl]

Tks for posting, burnerman. Points noted. I'll copy them and email them to roofer. Only thing is that he says this can't b claimed on the insurance as it's not storm damage. That is why I was asking if quote seemed reasonable. I told him that it only started with rain and wind during this weather. It rains all the time here!! But he says no.

But he says that this repair will stop the leak. That's the main thing I suppose.
Thank you again and will let you know how it goes.
Ps. Just curious. How would he inspect the laths? Can they b seen or inspected from the loft? No one asked to go in the loft. Both looked down from the dormer window and Street.

 

[Burnerman]

The way I look at things.....well, if the leak is sorted then its money very well spent, and its the roofer that has been up there, after all. At least he is going to use scaffold which is a plus point....many people work only from ladders which doesn't inspire too much confidence!
As for the slaters laths, if there is a layer of felt below the tiles, then any problem can only be seen when the tiles are removed. If there is no felt, the laths are visible from within the loft.
Of course its your priviledge to get as many quotes as you feel happy with - personally I just employ people who I judge to be capable and knowledgeable, and those I get a good feeling from.
John

 

[oldgirl]

Yes you are right. My priority is to stop the leak. I've given the go ahead and work starts on Thursday. Have emailed him what you said. He is coming tomorrow to explain everything and said that leak will stop. I hope so. He also said that although roof work is not covered by insurance, the internal damage is. I'll check that.
I feel great relief now that I've got someone to carry out the work.
Can't thank you enough. It's so great to talk to knowledgeable people. I was ripped off in Sept by people who did our driveway. My fault, So trying to b a bit cautious now.

 

[Burnerman]

For knowledgeable, read 'good at spending other folks' money '
Please post back with the outcome.
Fingers crossed!
John

 

[oldgirl]

Hi burnerman n jj4091. My problem has become worse. Pl see my post under roof forum posted today"do I need to replace my roof"
I retired at xmas thinking I'll b able to relax! !!!!!!
Fat chance way things are going.
Roofer got injured on Tuesday, fractured foot, so couldn't start work. Says will come 2moro.