RCD requirements poll

[AndyPRK]

When a diyer want to add a socket should we go on and on about RCD Protection

 

[JohnW2]

When a diyer want to add a socket should we go on and on about RCD Protection

IMO we should not "go on and on", but we should make sure that the DIYer is aware of the regulatory requirement for new sockets to have RCD protection. (S)he can then make up her/his own mind and, IMO, what decision they make is none of our business.

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

It should be mentioned.
BS7671 requires it, and has done for many years.

 

[kai]

RCD protection is very important, especially for sockets used to power anything outdoors.

 

[JohnW2]

RCD protection is very important, especially for sockets used to power anything outdoors.

That is certainly a view. However, I suspect that the poll question was thinking about a house 'full of non-RCD protected sockets" to which an OP wanted to add one more. As I've said, we certainly should make sure that any such person is aware of the regulatory requirement for any new socket (but not any of the existing ones) to have RCD protection, but I don't personally think that we should "go on and on" about it to any greater extent than that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PBC_1966]

Point out that the current generally accepted standard for wiring in the U.K. recommends it for added protection and that new installations done to that standard incorporate it - Yes.

Go on and on about it and try to insist that omitting it will result in some major danger - No. (And trying to tell people that it's illegal - Definitely no.)

Things really need to be put into perspective, and I feel that trying to browbeat a casual DIYer over some relatively trivial thing is likely to diminish in his mind the significance of warnings given over things which really are serious.

 

[stillp]

Point out that the current generally accepted standard for wiring in the U.K. recommends it for added protection and that new installations done to that standard incorporate it - Yes.

It's not a recommendation. It is a requirement.

 

[JohnW2]

I must say that I'm pretty surprised that, as things stand, a majority of voters have voted that we should "go on and on" about this issue.

Frankly, I don't think we should ever "go on and on" about anything. If 'how it is' (whether in terms of regulations, safety or both) has been communicated clearly to an OP, then if (s)he chooses to ignore that advice/information, or argue with it, that is IMO 'their problem' - and, unlike some people around here, I see no merit in repeatedly making a point that has already been made.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PBC_1966]

It's not a recommendation. It is a requirement.

It's a requirement for compliance with the standard. But there is no compulsion to follow the standard.

 

[stillp]

It's not a recommendation. It is a requirement.

It's a requirement for compliance with the standard. But there is no compulsion to follow the standard.

That's correct, unlike your earlier statement.

 

[PBC_1966]

I feel this is where many casual DIYers are misled when those with a very BS7671-centric way of thinking and writing use terms such as regulation and requirement.

I'm sure that to most people regulation suggests something legal, like a regulation which says you must not exceed 30 mph in a built-up area, or a regulation which says you must pay your income tax on time or face a penalty. Similarly, if the casual DIYer asks "Am I required to fit an RCD for this new socket?" he's most likely wanting to know if it's a legal requirement.

So while BS7671 might contain regulations and make something a requirement of the standard, since as far as the DIYer doing something in his own home is concerned there is absolutely no legal compulsion to follow any of BS7671's "regulations" or "requirements," effectively they are just recommendations (other than ones which cover such basic safety issues that not complying with them would result in something which is not reasonably safe, of course).

 

[stillp]

I'd agree that BS7671 confuses people by using the term "regulations" when it means "requirements". However, recommendations are different.

 

[Lectrician]

When a diyer want to add a socket should we go on and on about RCD Protection

If their proposal is not going to comply to the regs, they should be told. An RCD is also not an inconvenience, it is there to provide additional, wanted and warranted protection.

I'm a spark, and cannot install (typical) sockets without RCD protection. Why would a DIYer be any different?

 

[flameport]

So while BS7671 might contain regulations and make something a requirement of the standard, since as far as the DIYer doing something in his own home is concerned there is absolutely no legal compulsion to follow any of BS7671's "regulations" or "requirements,"

Why is a DIYer in their own home different from any other situation?

effectively they are just recommendations (other than ones which cover such basic safety issues that not complying with them would result in something which is not reasonably safe, of course).

You can't have it both ways. Electrical installations either comply with BS7671 or they do not.
Picking and choosing some parts to comply with and some to ignore is not an option, and how exactly would you determine which parts are 'basic safety issues' ?

 

[ericmark]

Forgetting about regulations, we must ask our selves has anything changed, since the war when the 13A socket came out, which would impact on safety, if the RCD was not fitted?
The answer must be yes, but as to if this warrants the change is something else. So here is my list of changes.

1. Service pipes have changed from metal to plastic even if they were not to be used as an earth electrode they helps make a good earth.
2. The class II equipment use has increased so faults rely on alternative paths.
3. Building methods have changed the the metal in the walls reported with Emma Shaw case for example.
4. A general apathy where people feel if it was not safe it would not be allowed so don't look after their own safety.
5. Age of some wiring, 1945 very few houses had even an electric kettle. The demand has risen so can damage old wiring.
6. Again demand the idea of electric showers was not considered in 1945 so the earth had to cope with just 30 amp.
7. Use of switch mode/pulse width modulated power supplies which have electronic link between extra low and low voltage which could fail.
8. Import of equipment which may not meet our standards.

I am sure there are many more. The regulations change after the event so until firemen are killed we did not require fire resistance consumer units, so there is always a lag between events which mean regulations must change and the regulations changing.

Also for us on the forum we often have no idea if the installation is TT or TN or even if there is any earth system. When I came to work my my dad's house I found only earth was one fitted for the telephone party line.

To fit RCD protection is not that hard. We have RCD FCU and RCD sockets OK maybe these don't protect the buried cable but it does not have to be buried. It will make it hard to extend a ring and have RCD protection without including it into the CU but I question if the DIY person with a lack of test equipment should extend a ring final.

In 1990 I returned home to find things had changed while I was working abroad. BS7671 had come in and people were sitting tests to show they could read. And the site I was working on had RCD's everywhere. In the 25 years since then we have got use to the RCD it is no longer something new. The old mechanical units which would trip at the drop of the hat have been replaced with some really clever devices. To have a 100 mA RCD instead or 30 mA I don't see as a problem, but no RCD I do.