Probably not, but it would be a matter for whoever (local council in the first place, judge it it went that far) to look at the facts of the case. In other words, does the way they live look like they are a couple, or just two people sharing a room.Do the rules define 'a couple'?
Exactly - hence my question. One can imagine landlords inducing pairs of strangers to have a 'one night fling' in order to reduce the number of "households" in the building!In other words, does the way they live look like they are a couple, or just two people sharing a room.
It wasn't actually me who introduced the hypothetical 8-person case. However, as you say, the importance would be in cases like that described by the OP - when it could make a difference.In the hypothetical case you raise, it wouldn't matter as the property would be an HMO either way - anything between 4 and 8 "families". But in other cases (such as the one raised by the OP), it could make the difference between the property being an HMO or not.
Or care about the welfare of the other people in the building when there was a fire or similar life threatening incident. They could just get out without alerting any of the other residents.presumably because none of the tenants would actually care about the place
Me too!I'm quite intrigued by these HMO requirements.
Quite so. If it really is as it appears to being decribed to us, it's even more daft than some bits of BS7671I thought it just depended on the building in that if it were rented to several - I don't know how many - people who had to share a bathroom and kitchen then the building was an HMO which required more stringent safety regulations presumably because none of the tenants would actually care about the place.
I did not realise it could depend on people's relationships. That is whether, say, four people are just four people or two couples.
Ultimately it would be the local council.Who, ultimately, decides whether a property is a 'standard' residential dwelling or an HMO?
Yes, it's not so simple for some of the edge cases.I'm quite intrigued by these HMO requirements.
I thought it just depended on the building in that if it were rented to several - I don't know how many - people who had to share a bathroom and kitchen then the building was an HMO which required more stringent safety regulations presumably because none of the tenants would actually care about the place.
I did not realise it could depend on people's relationships.
That is whether, say, four people are just four people or two couples.
I am wondering how this is determined in these times when people's sexual preferences are supposed to be of no consequence to anyone except themselves.
Surely if there are regulations designed to safeguard people living in HMOs then it would be a good idea to follow them anyway, when the nature of the occupation is the same but it does not count as an HMO because of family relations between the occupants and financial arrangements?
Is anyone sufficiently familiar with the 'HMO regs' to give us a very brief overview of the main issues (or potential issues) as far as electrical installations are concerned?Exactly this. Also this is not an insignificant amount of work, so its probably better to get it compliant with the HMO regs, this way in the future it can be sold as such, or offers an oppourtunity to be fully let should the situation change.
That, IMO, was a big legacy of the previous government (not just in this field, but in others I have an interest in). Legislation so often now says "you will make a risk assessment." - sold as making things easier, but in reality it's a part of "Step 6".It seems, as is typical, there is no black and white answer to the question "what are the regs". There are so many variables, guidence and legislation, that a straight foreward answer is impossible.
Thanks. Section 23 (Electrical Hazards) of that Guidance document seems to essentially consist of just this:Housing Health and Safety Rating System Guidance for Landlords and Property Related Professionals and is available as a free download. In the CLG guidance, Section 23 (Electrical hazards) and Section 24 (Fire) provide information relating to the hazards associated with electrical installations and measures to lessen the likelihood of occurrence and reduce harm outcomes. It seems, as is typical, there is no black and white answer to the question "what are the regs". There are so many variables, guidence and legislation, that a straight foreward answer is impossible.
With the possible exception of the last one (Lightening Protection Systems are not common in residential properties), I think I would probably struggle to see how those requirements differ significantly from, or exceed, the requirements of Part P/BS7671 in relation to any residential property. Am I missing something?Measures to lessen the likelihood of occurrence and reduce harm outcomes
• Electrical wiring installation meets the latest requirements of Institution of Electrical Engineers/British Standard (BS 7671) (Often available in local reference libraries);
• Adequate number of appropriately sited electrical socket outlets;
• Appropriately sited fuses and meters;
• Adequately earthed electrical system;
• Installation, i.e. supply/meters/fuses/wiring/sockets/light fittings/ switches to be maintained in good repair;
• Electrical installations to avoid close proximity to water including areas of damp; and
• Lightning Protection System to be kept in good repair.
Ah, Mr Black and White spouts off againSurely if you do not have reasonable grounds to believe that you are competent to make risk assessments for things like electrical installations, fire precautions etc then you ought to have the smarts to not DIY.
And if you don't have the grounds, and you do go ahead, then you deserve to be slapped if you screw up.
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