Rear brake problems

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AndrewSchofield

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Hi,

Got a '52 plate fiesta which has failed the MOT test on the rear brakes. The passenger side is under-powered on the foot brake, the drivers side doing next to nothing on the hand brake. The hand brake does hold on a hill, but presumably it must be the passenger side brake doing it all.

Ive fitted new shoes on both sides, drums look ok. Drivers side has also had a new cylinder and ive topped up brake fluid. adjusters have been cleaned up and seem to be free and moving cleanly. Hand brake cable seems to be moving freely and doesn't show signs of wearing.

Taken back to test centre - hand brake performance is unchanged, footbrakes is, if anything, worse than before.

Anyone got any suggestions as I dont know what else to do??
 
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Pedal performance is hydraulic, and as you've replaced the offside wheel cylinder, did you check to see if the nearside one is free.....tapping the ends with a hammer gently to and fro is fine.
As for the handbrake, can you post a pic of the adjusters? Two types on these, one is a ratchetted quadrant, the other round things that are supposed to turn automatically (they dont!)
Its unlikely for the drums to be excessively worn on these.
As for the handbrake, you need to find the compensator, that the two handbrake cables join to one, which is pulled by the lever. The cable adjustment is here.
John :)
 
Might have to much clearance between the shoes and the drum. Manually adjust until you can just get the drum on and turn by hand, with little or no clearance. Clean the little lip on the drum that never hits the shoe, to allow it the drum on with the shoes out to the max.

Then see what the handbrakes like
 
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Absolutely old bean.....if the pedal travel is excessive its always the back on these systems. The smallest adjustment here makes one hell of a difference at the pedal, and can sort the handbrake too.
I don't like Ford handbrake cables! They split and let the water in.
If Andrew posts back, I'm sure we can guide him!
John :)
 
Thanks guys. I thought I'd put it in the original post but it appears it only happened in my head - my dad used to be a mechanic and he helped me do the work. He checked the cylinders and that's why we ended up replacing one - he was happy that the passenger side one was free and working correctly. Checked it was free with the new shoes on moving them back and forth and all seemed fine. The offside shoes were a mess - the plug through which the handbrake cable enters the rear of the drum had come out and presumably had been letting in water and that had led to the cylinder getting corroded. The nearside drum looked pretty clean inside and as I say, my Dad was happy that the cylinder was free...?

You'll have to excuse my description but the adjusters look like a 'fat' pen with a threaded part on one end and a kind of ratchet system on the other that is supposed to be turned by a brass/copper spring system on that end. Both of these we took off and cleaned up and everything was turning freely. We refitted and then 'unscrewed' the adjusters enough to just allow the drums to fit back on.

Dad got a grinder on the drums to remove the 'lip' that the old shoes had worn into them before replacing. The 'lip' wasn't the big on the passenger side but drivers side had quite a lip on it.

John - so the handbrake adjustment is underneath the car somewhere....? That may solve one problem....

I don't know what they should be doing to be 'acceptable' but if it means anything to you guys, these are the figures off the test..

Parking Brake: Left 119 Right 22

Service Brake: Left 65 Right 169
 
OK Andrew, lets see if we can help.
Grinding the wear lip off was a good idea...it will let the drums come off and on freely. So:
Handbrake off, and one drum at a time.....turn the adjuster manually until the drum can just be fitted - then give it a hammer whack on the side to centralise the shoes. My bet is that the drum will turn a bit easier now.
Keep turning the adjuster one click at a time if necessary, until you are sure they won't go any further.
Repeat this with the other side.
Wheels back on now, lift the handbrake lever a couple of clicks. Try to turn one rear wheel by hand (or boot). If the wheel doesn't offer resistance, try another click. By now, one wheel should be stiff to turn, so see if its the same on the other one. If it isn't, then its still an adjuster issue or the handbrake cable isn't pulling equally on both cables.....I'm trying to recall the Fiesta mechanism, and I think each cable has its own adjuster, under the handbrake lever trim - but I may be wrong!
I'm assuming that the brakes don't need to be bled here - that wouldn't affect the handbrake but would of course influence the pedal pressure.
John :)
 
I assume that my description of the adjuster made sense then?

Will have to get it all back up on the stands, wheels off, drums off etc.. again, so will try all this you've suggested, but its not a job for tonight!!

The handbrake cable does have a threaded adjuster under the handbrake trim (that's a krypton factor exercise getting the trim off and even more so back on!!) but there is only one adjuster and one cable leading from the handbrake so if there's another adjuster on my car, it must be somewhere below the back seat where the cable splits to go to each wheel...? Is that feasible?

I'm afraid I don't understand the brake bleeding process - but Dad did that after he fitted the new offside cylinder - so again, I have to assume he knew what he was doing and did what was necessary....
 
Again, just giving the memory cell a hard time.....
One adjuster from the handbrake. Now that will go to a 'U' shaped device that connects to the handbrake cables.....if one cable is slightly longer than the other this will compensate so that the cable pull is equal.
Fords used to have only one long handbrake cable that passed through the compensator and went to each wheel but I don't think thats used now.
What we are proposing here will only affect the handbrake which has no hydraulic connection at all.....I'm sure your Dad doesn't need me to tell him about brake bleeding! Fiesta systems can bleed by gravity anyway.
Sort those adjusters and I think you'll really be getting somewhere.
John :)
 
Thanks John, Dad has been out of the mechanic job for the last 10years, and worked on farm machinery and ar-tic lorries rather than cars, but no, I'm sure he hasn't forgotten the basics in 10years!!

I'm no mechanic but am quite mechanically minded, quite practical and think logically, so despite never having seen the inside of a brake drum before last week, I now understand how the two brakes work and independently of each other and how the adjusters work. So I've learnt something, even if I've not solved the problem....(yet)

Will get it jacked up again and get them adjusters up tight as I can.

When you say hit the "side" of the drum - do you mean the front and/or back side of the drum, or do you mean the 'face' ie. the bit the wheel abuts. Or does it not matter and just the vibration of a hammer tap from any direction will knock the shoes into position??
 
Its the sides of the drum that you hit Andrew, and turn the drum as you do so...it will centralise the shoes nicely.
John :)
 
Right, we now think that we made an error in how we did the adjustment on saturday.... we tightened the handbrake up and then did a final adjustment to the adjusters in the drums. We've undone that, slackened the handbrake cable right off, done the adjusters up so the shoes are tight on the drums, and then taken the final bit of slack out of the handbrake cable. Dad also cleaned up the inside surface of the drums a bit more while they were off again.

The handbrake is now solid on both wheels with just one click on the handbrake - so that problem seems to be sorted, but the footbrake is harder to test without a rolling road..... Hopefully its right now. Do you think its likely the test centre would just test the brakes for me, rather than do a full MOT? Seems pointless going through the full test now whilst I still can't be sure the brakes are going to pass?

Does it sound feasible that our adjustment method was the reason for no improvement?
 
Yes, that was the problem.

Just might need another click on the handbrake to ensure you get a good tug on the cable, but probably will bed-in over time. Pull the handbrake when SAFE to do so, to apply additional force to the shoes to get them acquainted with the drums, before the re-test.

Not sure about the MOT, we have NCT over here and it s a full re-test at the set cost, or nothing.
 
Mursal - I assume you mean pull the handbrake whilst driving? Just pull it on, then off again - or leave it on slightly (one click) for a while?

The handbrake lever comes up 2 or 3 clicks without having to heave at it, but the wheels wont turn even when I only pull it onto the first 'click'.
 
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