Recommend a boiler please
- Thread starter DPressed
- Start date
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A question I always ask of boiler manufactures , before deciding to install there boilers is , if there boilers malfuntion during the guarantee period do they use service agents to repair them ??or do they use there own people ?? I will no longer install any boiler from any manufactuerer that use service agents . The service agents are not (?) representing the manufacturer, and this could have certain consequences for customers &installers that they are not aware of ?the worst iI have come across in this area are Biasi U.K service agents !
I would go for a heat only boiler and an unvented cylinder. Belt and braces job that gives you hot water when boiler goes belly up. For a big house, fit two boilers, so if one fails, other keeps chugging away and keeps you warm. Hot water always on tap regardless of boiler state.
From your earlier posting you say that you dont like companies who use service agents which is what Biasi and many other smaller companies do.
My experience is exactly the opposite to yours. Staff engineers are more interested in getting home early, working a five day week and not getting there quickly.
A service agent can be totally flexible and usually comes quicker. A friend had a Viessmann agent out on a Sunday a couple of weeks ago. The same guy came to me the same day a couple of years ago.
My conclusion is that you dont power flush the system properly when you fit boilers and when they get clogged up with dirt then you get upset at your own incompetence and expect the boiler to be fixed free of charge.
The Biasi is one of the most reliable boilers on the market and statistically you would only have one or two manufacturer's faults on 360 boilers.
Would you like to explain why you dont like service agents and what faults you have encountered and if its the cheaper M96 model you are fitting?
Tony
Hi Agile I think you are jumping to he wrong conclusions ? power flushing yes I do on occasions .I have never had a problem with any boiler I've installed due to sludge or blockages e.t.c .
The reason I won't use any boiler manufactuerer that use's service agents , is because they are probably not representing the manufacturer when carrying out there in-warranty repairs , & this (as I have discovered) can have consequences that the installer/customer may not be aware of!
I have spoken to trading standards , & they state that it depends on a number of factors , but ultimately it would be up to the courts to decide !
I have not used Viesmann , but I did have an interesting conversation with Stewart Purchase , who is or was the M.D , since that conversation I have only ever fitted boilers with stainless steel heat exchangers
Are veissmann, service agents , representing Viessman ? do you know ?ask them , if they say they are ask them to put it writing! should not the installer or customer be told at the point of sale if the service agents are or are not representing the Manufacturer? I have asked Biasi U.K this very question in writing , no response to date I contacted the plumbing buyer at Scrw-fix in writing & I asked them the same question , they cannot , or will not answer the question.
I must admit I can see why a manufacturer would not want this stated at the point of sale , how would they word it , I have contacted several Manufacturers & asked them are your service agents representing you when repairing your boilers under guarantee , they either dont know , wont answer , i,llget back to you e.tc e.t.c
Will deal with your Biasi question later!
The reason I won't use any boiler manufactuerer that use's service agents , is because they are probably not representing the manufacturer when carrying out there in-warranty repairs , & this (as I have discovered) can have consequences that the installer/customer may not be aware of!
I have spoken to trading standards , & they state that it depends on a number of factors , but ultimately it would be up to the courts to decide !
I have not used Viesmann , but I did have an interesting conversation with Stewart Purchase , who is or was the M.D , since that conversation I have only ever fitted boilers with stainless steel heat exchangers
Are veissmann, service agents , representing Viessman ? do you know ?ask them , if they say they are ask them to put it writing! should not the installer or customer be told at the point of sale if the service agents are or are not representing the Manufacturer? I have asked Biasi U.K this very question in writing , no response to date I contacted the plumbing buyer at Scrw-fix in writing & I asked them the same question , they cannot , or will not answer the question.
I must admit I can see why a manufacturer would not want this stated at the point of sale , how would they word it , I have contacted several Manufacturers & asked them are your service agents representing you when repairing your boilers under guarantee , they either dont know , wont answer , i,llget back to you e.tc e.t.c
Will deal with your Biasi question later!
It seems that I am missing the point you are trying to make.
I would have to admit that I dont understand your question so whoever I was I would not know how to answer it. How do you define "represent" in the context?
I would always prefer an independent service agent as they are NOT needing to sing from any makers songsheet. They are usually more honest and much more likely to tell you the truth about the boiler model and the fault you have encountered.
Why have you fitted so many Biasis then? I am looking forward to your Biasi answer as I take a lot of interest in boiler reliability and the faults experienced. Few people fit that many boilers of one type.
Tony
I would have to admit that I dont understand your question so whoever I was I would not know how to answer it. How do you define "represent" in the context?
I would always prefer an independent service agent as they are NOT needing to sing from any makers songsheet. They are usually more honest and much more likely to tell you the truth about the boiler model and the fault you have encountered.
Why have you fitted so many Biasis then? I am looking forward to your Biasi answer as I take a lot of interest in boiler reliability and the faults experienced. Few people fit that many boilers of one type.
Tony
What do I mean by represent , take for example the following , I installed a Biasi for a customer that required an in-warranty service visit due to a faulty N.T.C , in 2008, whilst on site the service agent made a number of complaints with respect to the installation , the complaints were no inhibitor , no supplementary cross bonding (boilers in a kitchen), condensate pipe in-correct , & the boiler serial number stated that it had been Manufactured 7 months prior to us purchasing it .
This resulted on the advice of the service agent ,in the customer making a complaint to Corgi, an inspection took place I was present as was the customer , & 2 Corgi inspectors , none of the complaints were upheld !
Not satisfied the customer engaged the services of another company in order to inspect the installation , this also included a further water analysis , again the complaint was not upheld .
I contacted Biasi U.K , and asked them to comment on there service agents findings , seemed a reasonable request , They have refused to comment , & the reason for this is because they are not in this instance responsible for there service agents actions he is not 'representing them.
Biasi boilers , I do have records of faults , but not here there at my office!
Other boilers installed 8 Quantum heatsavers , 27 to date, Johnson &Starley Reno heat only boilers , & for my sins about 35 Ravenheat C.S.I primary boilers , got some images of condensate corrosion on these its dire !
My gripe is with Biasi U.K not the product , why did we fit so many , because we found them to be a good product , we were geared up for spare parts , even set up a training rig , still use it , simple to fix , used up untill recently a primary flow switch , instead of a pressure sensor .
This resulted on the advice of the service agent ,in the customer making a complaint to Corgi, an inspection took place I was present as was the customer , & 2 Corgi inspectors , none of the complaints were upheld !
Not satisfied the customer engaged the services of another company in order to inspect the installation , this also included a further water analysis , again the complaint was not upheld .
I contacted Biasi U.K , and asked them to comment on there service agents findings , seemed a reasonable request , They have refused to comment , & the reason for this is because they are not in this instance responsible for there service agents actions he is not 'representing them.
Biasi boilers , I do have records of faults , but not here there at my office!
Other boilers installed 8 Quantum heatsavers , 27 to date, Johnson &Starley Reno heat only boilers , & for my sins about 35 Ravenheat C.S.I primary boilers , got some images of condensate corrosion on these its dire !
My gripe is with Biasi U.K not the product , why did we fit so many , because we found them to be a good product , we were geared up for spare parts , even set up a training rig , still use it , simple to fix , used up untill recently a primary flow switch , instead of a pressure sensor .
OK, so you had one less encouraging situation from just one service agent a year ago.
Make a couple of postings on this forum and you will get all and sundry complaining for any comment you make justified or not.
Although annoying and causing friction with the customer, not from what you have said disastrous.
I am sure that many on this site will be able to give examples of staff engineers who have refused to repair boilers for silly irrelevant aspects.
A service engineer is only paid once for fixing a fault so the incentive is to fix it there and then. A staff engineer is paid anyway and can put it off until the pipes have been bonded. BG engineers can apparently not do it and pass it to a colleague. The service agent has to do it himself.
My view is that bonding the pipes under a boiler is only necessary when the boiler is plastic like the later Biasi but unnecessary when its an all metal like the earlier Biasis.
I look forward to the other Biasi faults! So far one NTC !
Tony
Make a couple of postings on this forum and you will get all and sundry complaining for any comment you make justified or not.
Although annoying and causing friction with the customer, not from what you have said disastrous.
I am sure that many on this site will be able to give examples of staff engineers who have refused to repair boilers for silly irrelevant aspects.
A service engineer is only paid once for fixing a fault so the incentive is to fix it there and then. A staff engineer is paid anyway and can put it off until the pipes have been bonded. BG engineers can apparently not do it and pass it to a colleague. The service agent has to do it himself.
My view is that bonding the pipes under a boiler is only necessary when the boiler is plastic like the later Biasi but unnecessary when its an all metal like the earlier Biasis.
I look forward to the other Biasi faults! So far one NTC !
Tony
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