Repair or replace 13yr old poorly Worcester?

[ikay]

I've just bought a 4-bed 1850 stone terrace near Barnsley. The Worcester 240 combi boiler (not condensing) has 22mm piping to it but two problems:

1. British Gas (BG) have serviced it and put a big yellow sticker on saying "do not use" because the flue vents into a covered side passageway; they say the flue must vent to the back of the house, which needs a massive drill to get through the stone wall plus a flue which is about 12 inches longer.

2. Our hot water is scalding (which is why we got BG around in the first place). I think BG said the modulator needs replacing; and the boiler is 13 years old and has some other parts that might break.

So question (A) is, do we get these two things fixed, or just get a new boiler? www.which.co.uk reckon a new one saves £150 in gas bills every year.


I've had four quotes. They generally agreed BG were over-cautious, but once BG had said "do not use", none of them would fix the modulator without fixing the flue. One quote was £600 to fix both problems and £1400 to replace, which I don't trust seeing as the other three quotes were all about £2100 to replace - I didn't push very hard for quotes to fix. Only one bloke bothered to go upstairs to look at radiators, to leave us contacts of referees and in fact leave us any documentation at all; however he only fits Aristons because that's what he's used to.

At the moment we're not fussed to a powerful one, because we don't mind not using the tap when someone else is in the shower - but we'll probably have kids in a few years if we're lucky.

So question (B) is, over ten or twenty years, which is how long we expect to stay here (at least), will an Ariston work out as good value as a Worcester Bosch, which is what other plumbers recommend?

 

[chrishutt]

www.which.co.uk reckon a new one saves £150 in gas bills every year.

Pretty meaningless unless you know what the original gas bill is. You might save 15% in fuel costs but you'd have higher maintenance costs and a shortish working life (capital cost depreciation) so the net saving might be marginal or even negative. I certainly wouldn't rely on "which" for advice on such matters - they're journalists, not technical experts.

 

[ChrisR]

Have they said "At Risk" or
"Immediately Dangerous" and capped off?

If only AR, you can carry on using it if you want to.
Covered passageways are a newishly highlighted risk. Can you take a pic or give us some measurements?
I regularly take off other people's warning and Do Not Use notices when they're wrongly applied. (Inc by BG) Some of them make me cross!

There's no such thing as a "Modulator" exactly, on a boiler, so we can only guess what's wrong with it. May be just a cheap sensor...?

 

[chrishutt]

As ChrisR says, the concern about the covered assageway may well be exaggerated. It depends how wide and long the covered section is, the shape and condition of the ceiling and what room is above. Is there really any chance of flue gases building up in the passageway due to lack of air movement?

 

[pannierstan]

Have they said "At Risk" or
"Immediately Dangerous" and capped off?

If only AR, you can carry on using it if you want to.
Covered passageways are a newishly highlighted risk. Can you take a pic or give us some measurements?
I regularly take off other people's warning and Do Not Use notices when they're wrongly applied. (Inc by BG) Some of them make me cross!

There's no such thing as a "Modulator" exactly, on a boiler, so we can only guess what's wrong with it. May be just a cheap sensor...?

If its yellow Chris it will be At Risk. ID is Red with BG

Stan

 

[Agile]

These are solid boilers and worth repairing to extend the life for another five years or so.

Core drilling a hole for the new flue should only be about £160 inc longer flue. You might have to hunt for the flue but there will be some around. We might even have one in stock. That hole will probably suit a replacement boiler in the future so the drilling will not be wasted.

As stated the safety of the flue depends on the circumstances. BG act with caution as they cannot rely on all 5500 engineers reaching the same judgement. Independents can excercise their own judgement and might be before CORGI or the Court if they get it wrong.

A major consideration in my diagnosis would be if children are likely to play in that passage at any time in the future. Following a CO incident ( death! ) RGIs have been warned of the dangers of flues in passages.

The repairs to the boiler are probably just an open circuit sensor but could be the PCB or the mod coil on the gas valve. If the sensor about £100 should cover it.

A cheap 24 kW boiler could easily be fitted for £1400 inc if your boiler is on a pressurised system. But it would still have to have the flue in the new position.

Tony Glazier

 

[ikay]

Thanks guys, all helpful.

Stan / Chris - now you mention it, you're right - it's "At risk", not "do not use". BG said they would have capped it off, if the passageway had a gate at one end.

The passageway is ten foot high except for one end where a thin concrete vertical panel comes down from the ceiling to a height of about seven foot. The flue is about eight foot off the ground, so it vents into the area where the air is a bit more still. Lower down the passageway is sometimes like a wind tunnel.
But I'm going to get the flue moved whether I get a new boiler or not.

I don't know what's broken if it's not called a modulator. I'll have a look when I get home to see if BG wrote anything down. But when we have a shower you have to turn it hot, get under it for about 30 seconds while it slowly reaches boiling, duck out and turn it to cold, and repeat...

So repair may be a good option rather than replace? Two guys told me that manufacturers only have to make parts for 15 years, so my worry is that I get both problems fixed, then in two years something else goes that can't be replaced and I have to get a new boiler anyway. I've got big lounge and kitchen on ground floor, three beds and bathroom first floor, attic bed and bathroom second floor, with one radiator in each plus an extra rad in lounge and another on landing.

If I do replace it, any experience of Ariston boilers? Forgotten which one they recommended - I'll add it here when I get home about six.

 

[pannierstan]

If I do replace it, any experience of Ariston boilers? Forgotten which one they recommended - I'll add it here when I get home about six.

If you have a 15 year old Worcester and you are thinking of replacing with an Ariston and off and on then dont! repair the Worcester.

Stan

 

[ChrisR]

Don't know about others but it seems to me that a very high percentage of old boilers which are moved, have some sort of trouble. Leaks are very common.

Is the flue at the open, or part covered, end of the ginnel?
The danger wouldn't be to people at ground level as much as seepage of any noxious gas into the building above.

 

[corgiman]

I agree with chris as a rule I hate moving boilers

 

[ikay]

Thank you all again.

I think the boiler can stay where it is in the corner of the kitchen. It just needs the flue to go west through the rear wall instead of north into the side passageway - if I can get a flue about 12 inches longer.

The whole ginnel has a ceiling ten foot high - it's just that there's a slab three foot square coming down vertically at the west end, reducing the headroom for the last two inches of the passageway to seven foot. The flue comes out about three feet east of this slab. I'll e-mail [email protected] and ask them to add a photo to this post.

What's wrong with Ariston, and how will I be able to get parts for the Worcester 240 Combi RSF when it's more than 15 years old and they stop making them? I don't want to sound interrogative Stan but I'm keen to make the right decision here!

It was an Ariston 24 MFFI the guy with references was suggesting. Maybe I should try and get some other people to give us quotes for fixing.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Ariston customer service is pants - and their technical department is erratci to say the least.

The 24MFFI is not a condensing boiler which would make it illegal - unless they are using the same name on hte newer models... I'll check the website in a minute...

 

[ikay]

Oh yes forgot to say - it was Ariston Combi A 24 MFFI he quoted me for.

Ian.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I stand corrected - it is condensing, but they have shoe-horned a recuporator into the top to get the efficiency higher... Which is why it is only band B efficency.

Cheap and nasty....