Replacing an internally mounted Keston C36

[Brownilson]

Hi there

I am unfortunate enough to have a Keston C36 mounted in my internal kitchen with the twin flue system extending horizontally through the ceiling to poke out of an external wall.

I'm considering changing it as it is approx 9 years old and has just sprung another leak (2 in 2 months) - not sure how much money to keep pumping into it...

So my questions:

1. If I replace a Keston C36 with another Keston C36, can I use the existing flue system or would I have to tear it out and replace that too? ($$ + faff)

2. If I replace with a different boiler, do I need to replace the whole flue system? Are the only dependencies of the answer the ability to reposition pipes to meet the openings on the boiler and the availability of suitable diameter A to diameter B connectors? Or is it a case that gas safety would require change of the full flue system?

3. Is there a better & more reliable boiler than the Keston C36 at a comparable size which I can put in a kitchen cupboard and pipe the flue through the ceiling to the outdoors?

Thanks very much for any responses!

Regards

 

[snes]

"Is there a better & more reliable boiler than the Keston C36 at a comparable size"

Tough call?

 

[Brownilson]

"Is there a better & more reliable boiler than the Keston C36 at a comparable size"

Tough call?

I admit that was poorly worded.

3. Is there a good, reliable boiler that could replace my Keston C36 without having to rip out half my ceiling to replace the flue system?

 

[Tibbot]

All new gas boilers require a new flue system.

 

[muggles]

The C36 is no more, they're discontinued as Kestons are now basically re-hashed Ideal Logics with a short warranty. You can't re-use your existing flue, you need a new one

 

[polesapart]

Relocate your new boiler to an outside wall.

However unpalatable short term, long term you'll be glad.

 

[Agile]

Very unfortunately, the Keston and the Powermax were designed to use a two pipe flue and were often fitted where the architect wanted a central boiler position.

Unfortunately neither boiler was very successful in terms of being reliable with the Keston as far less so.

Many boiler makers do supply a twin flue pipe system. But because they supply so few make them very expensive indeed.

The Keston was designed so that it could use common plastic tube which was quite cheap.

Putting any other boiler in the centre of a property could end up with flue pipes costing more than the boiler!

So the best solution is putting the boiler on an internal wall. Easier said though because most places where a Keston has been fitted have been minimalistic fancy designs looking very modern but very difficult for fitting boilers!

Tony

 

[Brownilson]

Hi Tony,

I assume you meant put it on an external wall? Unfortunately it's in a flat which doesn't have a viable external wall position for the boiler...

Are there any specific boilers that you could recommend looking into? There's just so many out there so I'm looking to just cut down to a shortlist of candidates that I can research move heavily.

Regards

 

[Agile]

Sorry, I meant on the inside of an external wall.

I have a negative feeling about customers who want to do their own specifications and then expect the installer to do what they want when it will not work.

Worse because I suspect this desire comes about because people who fit boilers are classed as plumbers and everyone knows that plumbers leave school at 16 and are really thick and ignorant.

So my advice is always to choose an installer and let him deal with the specification. As that's what he does for his living I cannot see why you think that you can do it better.

But its not such an easy task in most cases!

Tony

 

[Brownilson]

Hi Tony,

I meant no offence! It's not about wanting to create my own specifications, thinking I could do it better or any slur on boiler repair people - I simply want to get a better understanding of what's out there so I can have an intelligent conversation with any installers coming to give me a quote.

This desire comes from the fact that I inherently don't trust people when both they and I are aware that I have absolutely no background knowledge with which to evaluate what they're saying. With the availability of information we benefit from these days, I honestly believe it's everyone's individual responsibility to develop at least a reasonable knowledge base to understand whatever they are purchasing and therefore to what extent the suggestions they have been provided are driven by profit margins & upselling, or even just ease of delivery/installation (unfortunate, but valid concerns). A great example is the fact that I've just Google'd Keston C36 reviews and a cursory glance of canvassed opinion across the internet suggests that they are ubiquitously unreliable, so if an installer were to come by and suggest that I get a new Keston C36 I could at least press for some other options and see what they suggest/put forward some suggestions and see what they think. I guess it's just due diligence, if there are ten options now which would deliver a distinct issue each in the future at least I could choose which of the future issues I'd rather deal with.

Hope that makes sense to you!

My question still stands if you know of any brands/models etc that I could look into prior to starting to get quotes.

Regards

 

[Agile]

Yes, but you have already been told that the C36 is no longer made in the original design.

There is often a good financial advantage having a replacement same model even if the actual model is not reliable. Then take out a maker's or BG maintenance/repair contract.

Its very quick to replace with the same model.

Unfortunately home owners look up boilers on the internet and because of a lack of wider issues come to a completely different conclusion.

Lady I am dealing with spends all her time looking at boilers and asking everything she can get a number for.

She told me that a 28 kW combi boiler was not suitable for her one bed flat "because the makers sales blurb said "that its suitable for a 2-3 bedroom house".

Although wanting a budget installation at minimum cost, she has picked the up market new ECO RF model. Probably because its the first one she saw.

Tony

 

[Brownilson]

Certainly - my example was meant to be demonstrative.

Someone else mentioned here that all new gas boilers required a new flue system, would that not be necessary when swapping like for like models? (Obviously I don't have that option, but curious to know)

Lady sound like a pain and I hope that I can use any information/advice you're giving me to not end up the same - but you get why people find it hard being expected to trust someone they usually don't know to appropriately spend £1000+ of their painfully earned money on something they don't know anything about, right? Step forward if you're going on a nice holiday this year - oh, not so fast, buddy...you get something even better.

Not bitter at all...

 

[simond]

ATAG offer a range of twin pipe boilers that we use to replace Kestons.

It would be shame if Keston stop making the C range, I have built a profitable business out of removing them. 2 years is a typical honeymoon period.....

 

[Agile]

She is a considerable pain.

But she does look nice in a saree though. But she has put on weight and the saree blouses don't fit her any more. But all the weight is in the wrong places!

The guidance we are given is that with a new boiler the flue system should last the life of the boiler.

So if deemed to have a 10 year lifetime we cannot fit to a 10 year old flue. But if the boiler has failed prematurely then if the flue is in good condition we can reuse the same make of flue.

But in the case of the Keston, e flue is standard UPVC plastic pipe but most makers like to sell their own flue at higher prices.

Tony