replacing existing downlights to bathroom

[HawkEye244]

A recent EICR picked up the fact that 6 out of 7 downlights in a bathroom needed replacing with ''new led suitably rated downlighters on a one for one basis''.

All existing downlights are halogen.

Downlight number 7 was above the shower cubicle and was not mentioned as needing replacing despite being halogen. I'm assuming this is because the IP rating is sufficient.

My question is:
Can I swap out the 6 existing downlights for new LED downlights, if so, which IP rating, I'm assuming IP65 minimum ?

Can I leave the shower cubicle downlight as it is , meaning the circuit will be 6 led and 1 halogen ?
Will this cause any issues with the existing light switch?
I have had issues before when changing to LED fittings with light switches not having enough load on the circuit to work properly.
All bulbs must be dimmable.

Thanks for any info

 

[HawkEye244]

downlights to room x 6

downlight to shower x1

 

[securespark]

Suitably rated for what?

IP?
Fire?

Chances are neither are required.

How high is the ceiling?

 

[HawkEye244]

Suitably rated for what?

IP?
Fire?

Chances are neither are required.

How high is the ceiling?

2.35m throughout
Yes, IP rating for fire.
According to the EICR this appears to be a requirement.
I can ignore it but if it gets picked up again on a refresher EICR I will be annoyed.

 

[securespark]

There is no requirement for fire rating unless the room or space above is part of another property.

Above 2.25m is outside the zones, so strictly, the fittings don't need to be IP rated for moisture either.

Can you ask the geezer who did the report to say why he has specified these fittings?

 

[HawkEye244]

There is no requirement for fire rating unless the room or space above is part of another property.

Above 2.25m is outside the zones, so strictly, the fittings don't need to be IP rated for moisture either.

Can you ask the geezer who did the report to say why he has specified these fittings?

In this case it's a flat. And there is a flat above. Does this make more sense now ?

 

[Taylortwocities]

In this case it's a flat. And there is a flat above. Does this make more sense now ?

Probably. It’s possible that the ceiling is a fire barrier. In that case he is correct. Is it double thickness plasterboard?

re the shower light. There’s no problem In leaving this as halogen, and the switch etc will be fine. except that halogen lights have been phased out - that’s why you don’t see them in Tesco’s any more. So you’ll need to be changing that soonish. Better to change it while you are at it.

 

[HawkEye244]

Probably. It’s possible that the ceiling is a fire barrier. In that case he is correct. Is it double thickness plasterboard?

re the shower light. There’s no problem In leaving this as halogen, and the switch etc will be fine. except that halogen lights have been phased out - that’s why you don’t see them in Tesco’s any more. So you’ll need to be changing that soonish. Better to change it while you are at it.

Looks like a dropped ceiling. Void above looks at least 500mm.
Thanks for the info.
Am I to assume that replacing all 7 with IP65 will be adequate ?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Above 2.25m is outside the zones, so strictly, the fittings don't need to be IP rated for moisture either.

As above. IP rating not a requirement. So not something to worry about.
Most downlights, Especially fire-rated will have some quoted IP rating.
Many IP65 fittings have the lamp set back, reducing the forward of light.
I’d go for an IP44 light.

 

[HawkEye244]

Thanks guys.
Sorry I've confused myself a little bit here, hence why I was talking at cross-purposes regarding the IP rating.
I assumed the quotation was with reference to IP fire rating but quite rightly there is no mention of it.


So, to clarify, because the lights are outside the 2.25m they can be changed for LED of ANY rating.. even a rating of IP20? which would be zero water resistance?

No reference to IP ratings in Part P.

Is it down to the punter to educate themselves on what the IP rating actually means and make an informed purchase based on that? Or are there hard and fast rules about which IP ratings apply to which scenarios like building regulations part P ?


Still not clear about why the existing lights were quoted for replacement by the sparky doing the EICR???

Think I'll go for IP44 then as suggested.

 

[HawkEye244]

Found these which are IP44:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/enlite-fixed-led-downlight-white-830lm-10w-220-240v/9197t

Will I encounter any issues with these, or is it as straightforward as swapping out the existing light for these ones?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Will I encounter any issues with these, or is it as straightforward as swapping out the existing light for these ones

Issues, maybe.
Make sure the existing hole size isn’t larger than the new fittings!

Probably the existing fittings are 12v. Your proposed ones are mains voltage. If they are 12v there will be one or more transformers that will need to be removed.

 

[Taylortwocities]

So, to clarify, because the lights are outside the 2.25m they can be changed for LED of ANY rating.. even a rating of IP20? which would be zero water resistance?

No reference to IP ratings in Part P.

Any LED fitting? There are other requirements, some of which are part of other building regulations that need to be taken into account. Things like acoustic performance and resistance to thd passage of moisture are also required to be complied with .

Your electrician has possibly assumed correctly that fire-rated fitting are needed in that ceiling. The Enlight fittings in your above link are not fire-rated.

The requirements for IP ratings and the definitions of zones in bathrooms etc are not in Part P. They are in BS7671, the Wiring Regulations.

 

[HawkEye244]

Any LED fitting? There are other requirements, some of which are part of other building regulations that need to be taken into account. Things like acoustic performance and resistance to thd passage of moisture are also required to be complied with .

Your electrician has possibly assumed correctly that fire-rated fitting are needed in that ceiling. The Enlight fittings in your above link are not fire-rated.

The requirements for IP ratings and the definitions of zones in bathrooms etc are not in Part P. They are in BS7671, the Wiring Regulations.

Ok, thanks for the information.
Just browsing through screwfix and there only appears to be one IP44 fire rated downlight that is sold.
I'm thinking the situation here can not be that unusual to limit the choice of product to this extent.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/luceco-f...d-led-downlight-white-600lm-7w-220-240v/490fy

The electrician mentions that the lights to be replaced are LED and suitably IP rated, and no mention of any fire resistance requirement.
This was pointed out earlier to me , you are one of the people that mentioned it...
But now there seems to be a suggestion that the electrician has recommended fire rated downlights after all.
I'm a little puzzled as this seems to be a contradiction?

I don't own a copy of those regulations, thanks for bringing them to my attention.
Would it be possible to get an extract of the relevant section so I can spec the correct lights ? .. assuming you own a copy ??

 

[Taylortwocities]

Ooh, I certainly have a copy.
But copyright. Here’s an almost correct guide.

https://www.downlights.co.uk/faq-bathroom-zones.html