ReWire to a 3 bed house and an outhouse. Comments plz.

[james 29]

Pensdown,

If i read that right you surely must have to pay a spark or supervisor to watch mates pull cables in. If not how do you get sparks who are brave enough to sign the construction part off.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This can be an option. For example, I don't do the installation, it's done by my company and it's up to me who I send to carry out the installation. I send a labour to do the donkey work (cheaper) and send a sparks out to do the terminating and testing. This is done on small and large projects. So long as the company or approved person takes the responsibility for the installation and if they have designed it and monitored the installation there is no problem.

Indeed, if it's all done by one firm, that's the way that NICEIC (and I think ECA) contractors have always worked, and look here not too hard and you'll find plenty of references to the concept of "1 Qualified Supervisor and an army of knuckle-draggers"

We and many others have been doing this for years with self builders

That I didn't know.

and since PP this has not changed. If people want to go that route they have not got to notify as the PP contractor will sign it off as his job, in a sense he has just used un-paid sub contract labour.

And that's very interesting. What sort of fees do you charge?

PS, if they are not capable, from now we are going to smack them round the back of the head with a rolled up copy of PP

Nah - give them a personal demo of what a megger does...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh, and the extending PME equipotential zone thing, i've always wondered why you can't just install the separate MET for the outbuilding, do the bonding and have it as a separate equipotential zone,

So where will you get your earth from?

Yes you can do this, you always have been able to do this - you put in an earth rod, and an RCD protecting the whole outbuilding, and hey presto, a compliant TT installation. And then you have to ensure that the armour of the cable is inaccessible, and terminated in an insulated enclosure as it will be at a different potential to your TT earth. And you've done all this instead of using a perfectly good supply earth from the house.

Seems a bit perverse to me.

 

[Adam_151]

not quite what I was trying to say, use the earth given to you by the supplier, but rather than extend the equipotential zone to the outbuilding, create a separate one for the outbuilding, treat it as if the submain to the building was a supply from the rec, and size bonding conductors in accordance with that.

So a separate PME equipotenial zone, as opposed to either an extension of a PME equipotential zone, or a separate TT equipotential zone

I hope i've managed to explain it clearly this time...I haven't heard it mentioned anywhere, so I'm looking for a flaw in it...

 

[Spark123]

From GN5:
"Occasionally a service will terminate in a postion remote from the building it supplies. The size of the PME bonding in the building supplied must be related to the size of the incoming supply cable, in accordance with regulation 547-02-01 and table 54H of bs7671. If the size of the circuit protective conductor of the cable between the supply intake position and the building is less than that of the PME bonding conductor, a suitable additional conductor will have to be installed of the PME not used."

 

[Adam_151]

Thanks for that, Spark123

 

[Pensdown]

and terminated in an insulated enclosure

http://www.cmp-products.co.uk/products/productPage_no_border.asp?pid=49

edit link added
edit, throws up to many permutations

 

[ban-all-sheds]

not quite what I was trying to say, use the earth given to you by the supplier, but rather than extend the equipotential zone to the outbuilding, create a separate one for the outbuilding,

That's exactly what you can't do - you can't have an equipotental zone which is at a different potential to the supply earth. You do not want there to be a potential difference between all the earthed exposed-conductive-parts and all the extraneous-conductive-parts.

treat it as if the submain to the building was a supply from the rec, and size bonding conductors in accordance with that.

If you are going to treat a submain as if it were a TN-C-S supply then you would connect neutral and earth together. You aren't allowed to do that. And if you did you'd be back to sinking an earth rod, just as the DNO does to turn a possibly risky TN-C-S into PME..

So a separate PME equipotenial zone, as opposed to either an extension of a PME equipotential zone, or a separate TT equipotential zone

I can't see how you can (safely) have neither the same zone, or a separate TT one.

 

[Pensdown]

Pensdown,

If i read that right you surely must have to pay a spark or supervisor to watch mates pull cables in. If not how do you get sparks who are brave enough to sign the construction part off.

The labours that can't speak english need to be watched but the others are normally OK. It's much easier with self build because it's their own home. They often make a better job than most sparks!. All cables are clipped in the loft, some of them are a work of art, they won't even use grey clips on white cable, what ever next

 

[YCWB]

yes i do have the qualification and yes i am going to self certify with a registered body. I have not decided who yet. the nic has a 3 months waiting list ive been told but its a must if your main form of income is as an electrician. Mine isnt so im looking at the others.

I dont have any other building work on this house at the minute that i could pust building controll on, i will have the windows to change and as im not FENSA registered i will have to inform them but that wont be just yet.

BAS - you picked up on something i hadnt actually thought about. a water supply to the shed . well it doesnt have one at the minute but i guess it will have to have one for the washing machine lol.

If a cold water pipe is just run from the house does this acutally need bonding?

Ive never run an electric supply to an outhouse before so i would like to get things right before i attempt to do it.

 

[Spark123]

If a cold water pipe is just run from the house does this acutally need bonding?

Not if you do everything in plastic

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS - you picked up on something i hadnt actually thought about. a water supply to the shed . well it doesnt have one at the minute but i guess it will have to have one for the washing machine lol.

And connection to main drainage - something else to notify LABC....

 

[HDRW]

Just an aside...

...All cables are clipped in the loft, some of them are a work of art, they won't even use grey clips on white cable, what ever next

It seems to be really difficult to find white clips for T&E these days - surely the regulations haven't banned white clips along with red&black cable? If not, why have they disappeared from the sheds and Screwfix? (TLC still have them, but they are more expensive than B&Q!)

Cheers,

Howard

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Maybe because ordinary cable is now only grey, they figure people will only want grey clips....

 

[HDRW]

Maybe because ordinary cable is now only grey, they figure people will only want grey clips....

Sorry, I must have missed something: "ordinary cable is now only grey"? When did this happen?

Cheers,

Howard