Room-stat v. TRVs

[Costeta]

You can get LightwaveRF kit at many places including Maplin

 

[Costeta]

Try
http://lightwaverf.com/product-manuals
You just need a link and TRVs

 

[Costeta]

Dan if I keep the temperatures the same the u value is neutral and can base it on floor area.

 

[bri160356]

(bri160356 says the house thermostat conflicts with the TRVs).

He is mistaken.

As is the article he quotes.

What is wrong with the ‘article’?..

............I’d be very interested in your comments.

It’s from ‘Heating & Plumbing Monthly’ and was written by Martyn Bridges, Director of Marketing and Technical Support at Worcester, Bosch Group.

He certainly sounds authoritative,....... but you appear not to think so.

 

[Costeta]

Bri160356
For what it's worth I agree with you that all you need is TRVs on each radiator and not a house thermostat.

 

[Costeta]

But if you have both then set the house thermostat higher than needed and rely on the TRVs to control the heat output from the radiators not the house thermostat controlling the boiler. I agree they conflict.

 

[bri160356]

OK thanks,
I've checked with the supplier/ manufacturer of the LightwaveRF TRVs and they are adding the functionality of the TRV calling the boiler when the TRV opens or closes next year which should solve the problem.

That’s very interesting my friend. Just trying to get my head round the concept.

Are they saying that each TRV will having the functionality of a room-stat and be able to shut the boiler/interlocks off completely?

Do ALL the wireless TRVs need to be OFF before the boiler/ interlock switches off?

i.e. if just one wireless TRV is still open and calling for heat, then the boiler is still fired up and it’s only when ALL the wireless TRVs are closed that the boiler/ interlock will shut-down. In effect, the last TRV to close will shut down the boiler.

Similarly, the first wireless TRV to re-open (whether its bedroom/lounge/kitchen etc) will switch the boiler back on.

Is that how it works???

 

[Costeta]

Hi,
the functionality of a communications link between the TRVs and the boiler via a LightwaveRF link and boiler switch are due next year some time. However it's a good question and I've passed it onto MegamanUK.com who are answering all my questions and I'll get back to you when I get an answer.
You might want to look them up. They have product manuals, videos.

 

[Dan Robinson]

(bri160356 says the house thermostat conflicts with the TRVs).

He is mistaken.

As is the article he quotes.

What is wrong with the ‘article’?..

............I’d be very interested in your comments.

It’s from ‘Heating & Plumbing Monthly’ and was written by Martyn Bridges, Director of Marketing and Technical Support at Worcester, Bosch Group.

He certainly sounds authoritative,....... but you appear not to think so.

Perhaps he should concentrate on addressing the technical errors in his own product manuals. Also, why have wooshitter Botch released a very expensive new thermostat and have an extensive range of thermostat options?


Google has a lot to answer for.

Edited.


The fundamentals of the article are not wrong - apart from the last sentence of course. But your interpretations are.

 

[bri160356]

(bri160356 says the house thermostat conflicts with the TRVs).

He is mistaken.

As is the article he quotes.

What is wrong with the ‘article’?..

............I’d be very interested in your comments.

It’s from ‘Heating & Plumbing Monthly’ and was written by Martyn Bridges, Director of Marketing and Technical Support at Worcester, Bosch Group.

He certainly sounds authoritative,....... but you appear not to think so.

Perhaps he should concentrate on addressing the technical errors in his own product manuals. Also, why have wooshitter Botch released a very expensive new thermostat and have an extensive range of thermostat options?


Google has a lot to answer for.

Edited.


The fundamentals of the article are not wrong - apart from the last sentence of course. But your interpretations are.

Hi Dan, thanks for your input but my question was, specifically ‘what is wrong with the article’?............if the info in article is rubbish, then I’m keen to learn why?
Cheers.

P.S. To answer your question re Worcester Bosch;........ ...I can only guess........is it because regulations say they have to?

P.P.S just read your edited post (you originally said you agreed with ‘JohnD’ that the article was wrong); however your edit now says that it is correct, apart from the last paragraph.

However, my understanding (that you say is incorrect) of the room-stat functionality coincides exactly with the info in the last paragraph.

Whichever way you view it, there is a fundamental ‘compromise’ with a system that samples the temperature in just one location, and uses that ‘sample’ to control the heating to the entire property.

I find it difficult to understand how anyone fails to see the inherent issues with a single room-stat used in conjunction with an uncontrolled radiator.

It’s a good solution, but far from the perfect solution.

 

[Costeta]

Bri160356,
Look up Heatgenius.co.uk. They also do a wireless TRV system that uses a boiler control. A little more expensive than LightwaveRF kit but gets good reviews.

 

[JohnD]

According to the above article the room-stat should NOT be placed in a living-room or kitchen but should be in a hallway or landing.

In the article... in essence it’s saying that if TRVs are fitted to all radiators then a room-stat is effectively competing with the TRVs

1) the thermostat should be placed in the living room you use most (unless it has a log fire or some other form of heat). The practice of putting room stats in the hall was quite popular in the 1960's for reasons that I do not know (except that people thought they might want to turn down the temperature when they went out).

2) The TRV and the room stat do not compete because there should not be a TRV in the room with the room stat. I am surprised and disappointed that there is somebody writing articles for the public who has not grasped that fact.

 

[bri160356]

According to the above article the room-stat should NOT be placed in a living-room or kitchen but should be in a hallway or landing.

In the article... in essence it’s saying that if TRVs are fitted to all radiators then a room-stat is effectively competing with the TRVs

1) the thermostat should be placed in the living room you use most (unless it has a log fire or some other form of heat). The practice of putting room stats in the hall was quite popular in the 1960's for reasons that I do not know (except that people thought they might want to turn down the temperature when they went out).

2) The TRV and the room stat do not compete because there should not be a TRV in the room with the room stat. I am surprised and disappointed that there is somebody writing articles for the public who has not grasped that fact.

John, I think we are talking at cross-purposes here my friend;

I don’t think that anyone, including me, is saying that there will be any conflict between the room-stat and the radiator in which the room-stat is fitted,.........because, there is a consensus that NO TRV should be fitted to that particular rad. I'm not advocating that there should be.

The conflict (for want of a better word) occurs when a bedroom TRV opens ( because the temperature has fallen),..... BUT the boiler may not be able to deliver the required heat because the room-stat is keeping the boiler switched off.

The room-stat concept is not an exact science...........but rather a “near enough is probably good enough” attempt to control the average temperature of the entire house.

Please feel free to correct anything I post, my friend.

 

[bri160356]

Hi,
the functionality of a communications link between the TRVs and the boiler via a LightwaveRF link and boiler switch are due next year some time. However it's a good question and I've passed it onto MegamanUK.com who are answering all my questions and I'll get back to you when I get an answer.
You might want to look them up. They have product manuals, videos.

It certainly seems to be the way forward. Complete and independent control of all areas.

The ability to wirelessly switch off and control the heating to individual areas has got to be a real moneysaver.

Like you, I work from home and when my heating goes on I really can’t be arsed running round my (largish) house and switching off all the TRVs in bedrooms etc when in truth no heat is required at all in many of those areas until the evening. Yes, I know it’s very lazy and not good for the planet, but if I turn my TRVs off completely I then need to set them again when required.

The wireless system will pretty much do it automatically.

I earn my living from IT so technology holds no fear for me; especially when it works!...

....sadly, that’s not always the case with new technology............, but it usually gets there.... eventually.

 

[Costeta]

A response from Megaman.
"Good evening Costeta,

I havnt seen the prototype or manuals for the new system that will be launched in 2015, so please forgive my lack of knowledge at this stage.

The initial idea is two incoperate the whole system as one. Ie the home thermostat and boiler switch will act as it does now but include rf signals with the trv valve. When a bedroom radiator calls for heat it will send a signal asking the boiler to fire up. If this is the only room that calls heat the boiler will switch on purely for the purpose of the one zone.

As the lightwave office is currently closed I will make it my first priority tomorrow to seek further information on the plans for this system.

Thank you for your patience.

Best regards,

Jazmin Ross
Megaman UK
01707 386000