Rubbish central heating system

[vixx78]

Hi, I was wondering if I could have some advice on the order I should tackle my heating issues in, any advice would be appreciated
I will add I am female, but bizarrely enjoy DIY and have had to turn my hand to a few bits over the years and have done up a BTL flat myself etc, but still be patient with the blonde.
I bought the house 12 years ago, the idiot guy before me had badly converted the house from hot air heating to gas boiler central heating. Everything seems rubbish quality, within wks of moving in first radiator valve went, so taught myself to replace that, then over the yr several more went so I just drained system and replaced them all, but even drain valve broke half open so had to be replaced. Now have 3 radiators rusted through at bottom leaking orange water, plus major issue with HW / CH and narrowed it down to knackered 3 way valve (V4073A honeywell). I THINK I can change this myself.
The worry is the system must be full of rust etc, even though used rust inhibitor when I refilled the system last time, just cr*p radiators. So I assume rust will poss damage system as well as being less efficient. So do I A -use system clean first (will still have rusty radiators), then drain and replace radiator and valve
B - replace radiators, then clean, then valve,
C - replace radiators and valve then clean?
Also is it work getting a power flush or just using chemicals?
sorry for the essay! I need to do as much myself as poss as also need new floorboards and new bathroom as the idiot guy just cut pipe sized bits of floorboard out everywhere which have now all caved in.... Thanks[/i]

 

[kbdiy]

Sounds a bit of a mess! I think I would tackle it by:
remove the leaking rads (worth making sure the remainder are sound);
run a chemical cleaner round the system (Sentinel X400 or X800 are generally well liked);
limit circulation to 1 rad at a time for max effect;
add a bypass pipe (connect flow to return) where you have removed the old rads so you can flush the pipework as well;
drain, flush, refill with clean water and flush again;
replace valves and rads as required;
refill to check for leaks;
drain (may only need to be partial drain) and top up with inhibitor (Sentinel X100 or similar).
Good luck

 

[JohnD]

it is also a very good idea to fit a system filter, which will cost you about £100. It will trap circulating particles out of the water before they can accumulate into a blockage, or cause wear for example in your pump. If you fit a filter before you start your cleaning and replacement, it will catch most of the particles that you disturb while you are working.

When you have finished cleaning and repairing, include a corrosion inhibitor in your final fill. If you are in a hard water area and have an old boiler, you can also add X200 which will gradually dissolve existing limescale from inside your boiler. It can be left circulating and need not be flushed out.

 

[kbdiy]

it is also a very good idea to fit a system filter, which will cost you about £100.

I knew I would forget something from the list!

 

[DP]

Red system water suggests air ingress into the system- check the header tank is not hot when heating or hot water zone is active. Constant topping up means air is being introduced into the system, hence water is red/ orange/ coffee coloured.

You can of course clean the system till is sparkling clean, but if the air ingress problem remains unresolved, rusting from within will remain an issue

If you are using X800, make sure you fill/vent/ circulate/ fully drain several times or residual chemical liable to kill your pump. Good chemical but follow the instruction very closely. Call Sentinel and seek advice from their technical department regarding use of their chemicals.

 

[vixx78]

Great, thanks everyone, yes it is a mess. I will work my way through what you suggest as that sound like a plan. Just need to decide if just the powerhead or whole valve needs replacing on the 3 way valve. Sound expensive though even doing it myself. I have pretty much decided to replace all old single fin radiators as two are rusted through to point of water leaking out of bottom and the other have rust to varying degrees :-/
Are there any good radiators makes or ones to avoid?

 

[DP]

I Repeat, replace radiator after you have pinned down the cause. Fit new radiators now ignoring what I said above, you will be doing the same sometime later.

I have seen radiators well over 25 years old that are giving good service, ugly they may be, but no corrosion that you have in your system at present

 

[JohnD]

I somehow missed the orange water.

Look at the Vent Pipe which is curved over the feet and expansion tank. You can put a jam jar or wide-mouthed bottle underneath it so you can see if water is coming out of the vent pipe (place it so that any overflow spills into the F&E). Water should not normally come out of the pipe, but it may do when the pump is running, especially at start-up.

The bottom of the F&E will probably be full of brown mud. Tie up the ball cock, bale it out and sponge it clean before untying the float. There's no point in letting that mud be drawn into the pipework.

Look at the water level in the F&E tank. It should only be a couple of inches above the exit holes in the end. Adjust the float if necessary. Observe if the level is too high e.g. because the valve is dripping.

 

[vixx78]

Thanks everyone, I will check expansion tank, but looked not that long ago and all seemed fine (idiot previous owner also put loft insulation under the water tank which meant I got home from holiday and found the water tank just about to fall through the ceiling as the condenstation had caused the board to break, then as tank moves pipes all came apart and made it wetter..etc... I think orange water is just where the whole bottom of raditior has rusted through, but rusty all over, but I will check.
Do you mind checking my logic on the 3 way Honeywell V4073A valve? The lever on side was floppy with no resistance, didn't move back as it's meant to. So I took of the case to powerhead and the springs weren't moving at all, so lever was doing nothing.
Removed synchron motor, there was a pop and suddenly spring started to move if you moved the lever, so must have been jammed. Seemed to then work ok with no motor on and was turning full distance to hit micro-switches. The cog on the bottom of motor wouldn't moved at all, and I guess it should move manually if no elec, therefore motor Kaput, either causing jam or burned out as a result of something else.
Removed whole powerhead unit. The spindle to the actual 3-way valve moves just with fingers, only turns a small amount each way (about 30 degrees, but I think that's normal?

Therefore my conclusion is valve probably ok..? def need a new motor but probably safest to buy new powerhead as don't know if that caused springs to jam or vice-a-versa.. Does that seem to make sense?
When I put back together springs / lever wouldn't move etc as soon as I put motor back as cog still solid. Really appreciate all your help and knowledge

 

[TCCHeating]

You mention condensation. Does the water in the feed/expansion tank get warm when the heating is on? If it does then your system is pumping over. This would explain the red water as well. Can you post some pictures of the pipe layout of your system. Especially pictures of the pipes around the pump and where the feed and vent pipes enter the system.

 

[vixx78]

Ok, I'll try to get some pics in daylight tomorrow. I've never noticed it getting warm. I'm a bit odd but don't both having even the hot water on for most of the year (have dishwasher and elec shower etc) so seems stupid to keep a whole tank hot when it's hardly ever used. But that probably doesn't help the system sitting still for 9 months. When the water tank fell through it hadn't been on for 6 months or so. Just got told by my builder the insulation under tank was a no no. thx

 

[vixx78]

I have just read somewhere that the ball in the valve can dent if left in one position for a long time. The spindle seems to move ok, just a bit stiff, but do you think I'm better replacing the whole valve, not just the powerhead? The combined unit seems very cheap here http://www.tradeboilerparts.co.uk/honeywell-v4073--22mm-mid-position-valve-757-p.asp and says it's genuine, but don't know the website

 

[vixx78]

A bit of a late update but wanted to say thanks for all the help. Just after posting this I successfully tackled the central heating. 3 way valve and motor head replaced with no prob, only slight issue was I had to keep one of the old olives on as it was so close to a 90 degree bend in the pipe I couldn't get to it to remove it without risking damage. Seems fine though (fingers crossed). Rusted radiator changed and a leaking valve replaced. Used X400 then their inhibitor. Not linked with this but also replaced downstairs loo sink and taps. Very pleased with myself and saved a fortune. Central heating has been working normally all winter, not bad for a blonde lady Next project is replacing bathroom.... Thanks

 

[Agile]

Well done.

But I don't see any reason why any female should not do plumbing and there are a very few.

But never seen any female unblocking toilets or outdoor drains.

On one day only I saw a female refuse collector about 20 years ago but never a single one since!

Tony

 

[vixx78]

Thanks Agile ! I don't see any reason either, I just get odd looks when I go into builders merchants and have found they can be less tolerant of me asking questions if I need a bit of guidance then they were with the bloke in front asking really stupid questions! I have unblocked outside drains once, but wouldn't repeat unless I had to. When I bought my house 12 yrs ago within 6 months I'd had two lots of radiator valves go as previous owner used cheap parts, so I worked out if I didn't teach myself asap I'd be bankrupt. Then did a bit of tiling and laid a wood floor and enjoyed it so much I bought a buy-to-let flat that needed refurbing which is all done now. Quite nice but tiring doing round my normal 9 - 5 job. Although I have to say I'm not looking forward to doing my bathroom as everything including ceiling and floor need replacing...