Sandwich

[imamartian]

So, you're in a cafe, and you tell the proprieter...

"Well, i really like bread..... and i quite like cheese... but i'm not really keen on ham..."

so they bring you a ham sandwich?

That's British politics for you... we need electoral reform, and we need it now !!!!

 

[skitzee2k]

So, you're in a cafe, and you tell the proprieter...

"Well, i really like bread..... and i quite like cheese... but i'm not really keen on ham..."

so they bring you a ham sandwich?

That's British politics for you... we need electoral reform, and we need it now !!!!

How would electoral reform help this situation??

I like cheese, but I understand that only 30% of people here like cheese so we all get a mixture.
That is PR.

 

[Homesafe]

I like Donner meat but because its so fattening I ask for low fat mayo, is that the type of gov. we have now?

 

[imamartian]

So, you're in a cafe, and you tell the proprieter...

"Well, i really like bread..... and i quite like cheese... but i'm not really keen on ham..."

so they bring you a ham sandwich?

That's British politics for you... we need electoral reform, and we need it now !!!!

How would electoral reform help this situation??

I like cheese, but I understand that only 30% of people here like cheese so we all get a mixture.
That is PR.

I don't have the answers... hence why i asked the question... but wouldn't a tory/labour coalition more accurately reflect the electorate?

 

[skitzee2k]

So, you're in a cafe, and you tell the proprieter...

"Well, i really like bread..... and i quite like cheese... but i'm not really keen on ham..."

so they bring you a ham sandwich?

That's British politics for you... we need electoral reform, and we need it now !!!!

How would electoral reform help this situation??

I like cheese, but I understand that only 30% of people here like cheese so we all get a mixture.
That is PR.

I don't have the answers... hence why i asked the question... but wouldn't a tory/labour coalition more accurately reflect the electorate?

...the coalition wouldn't hold, forgetting of course that they are opposite in almost everyway, the fact that they both had such a big number of seats would mean they would both try to be dominant.

Just hope that FPTP isn't done away with otherwise we'll have this kinda thing all the time.

 

[RedHerring2]

I hope that FPTP is done away with and we go a step further to allow more minority parties to hold seats, accoording to their percentage of votes received.

Then we'll have a true plurality government all the time, not the bi-party, flip-flopping, see-sawing government that we've had for the last 100 years or so.

 

[Lincsbodger]

So, you're in a cafe, and you tell the proprieter...

"Well, i really like bread..... and i quite like cheese... but i'm not really keen on ham..."

so they bring you a ham sandwich?

That's British politics for you... we need electoral reform, and we need it now !!!!

How would electoral reform help this situation??

I like cheese, but I understand that only 30% of people here like cheese so we all get a mixture.
That is PR.

I like cheese, so do 9 other people , only 5 like ham and 8 like peanut butter.

We ended up with ham and cheese, but we nearly got ham and peanut butter, that would have been disgusting................

 

[skitzee2k]

I hope that FPTP is done away with and we go a step further to allow more minority parties to hold seats, accoording to their percentage of votes received.

Then we'll have a true plurality government all the time, not the bi-party, flip-flopping, see-sawing government that we've had for the last 100 years or so.

Yeah, because small parties holding huge amounts of power being 'kingmakers' are always a good idea.

Sick of politicians making deals behind closed doors??? Just wait until there is 50 different parties, all jockying for favours and advantage...i'm sure everything will be crystal and out in the open then

 

[imamartian]

...the coalition wouldn't hold, forgetting of course that they are opposite in almost everyway, the fact that they both had such a big number of seats would mean they would both try to be dominant.

Just hope that FPTP isn't done away with otherwise we'll have this kinda thing all the time.

I'm really interested by your response skitz. I always thought we should have a representative government, i.e. where the number of mp's matched the number of votes... but i also understand the idea of a 'strong' government that FPTP gives.....

However, shouldn't we govern the country in the same way as a director would manage a huuge multi billion company... there shouldn't reallt be an opposition.. the class system has all but dissipated?
i realise it's not quite that simple.... but we really are in need of radical change..

 

[skitzee2k]

...the coalition wouldn't hold, forgetting of course that they are opposite in almost everyway, the fact that they both had such a big number of seats would mean they would both try to be dominant.

Just hope that FPTP isn't done away with otherwise we'll have this kinda thing all the time.

I'm really interested by your response skitz. I always thought we should have a representative government, i.e. where the number of mp's matched the number of votes... but i also understand the idea of a 'strong' government that FPTP gives.....

However, shouldn't we govern the country in the same way as a director would manage a huuge multi billion company... there shouldn't reallt be an opposition.. the class system has all but dissipated?
i realise it's not quite that simple.... but we really are in need of radical change..

The government should represent us, but it needs to try and preserve a majority at the same time. The way to look at it is by breaking it down into seats.

Every MP that gets elected is elected because out of all the people standing in his area, he got the most votes. If any party wants to be elected they just have make sure that there are more people in any given area that want their man over any other.

The last thing we want is for the only power we have, to pick who we want to govern us, to be bastardised and changed in a struggle to get anything done.

Look at Israel for example, where deals have to be made with the ultra religious just to get things done (in return for extreme religious proposals being pushed through). PR would see so many fringe groups that you'd never be able to trust your vote again.

 

[RedHerring2]

Yeah, because small parties holding huge amounts of power being 'kingmakers' are always a good idea.

Sick of politicians making deals behind closed doors??? Just wait until there is 50 different parties, all jockying for favours and advantage...i'm sure everything will be crystal and out in the open then

You're looking at the behaviour of the typical politician in the last couple of decades. Where one of two major parties held huge amounts of power, despite them being elected by barely more than a third of the electorate.
Try thinking about the positives of the minority parties 'tempering' the 'extreme' policies of the main parties.
Hopefully we'll end up with a succession of governments that are steering a middle'ish path. And if that is brought about by deals done in back rooms, well so be it.
I think it was your goodself that proclaimed that we elect representatives to govern us for the next parliament. If that means representing our interests in those bargaining sessions, well that's what we elected them for.

From my point of view, I hope that we end up with all those extreme policies being compromised into sensible legislation.

We nearly saw the start of sensible compromises in the last parliament: detention periods, 10p tax rates, etc.
Hopefully, there's a lot more to come.

 

[imamartian]

PR would see so many fringe groups that you'd never be able to trust your vote again.

that's almost any oxymoron... surely PR is exactly about being able to trust your vote?

and apologies for referring to an earlier post.. but doesn't that suggest we need devolution? Scotland hasn't got a Tory bone it it's body, and England woulf have been a Tory landslide...?

 

[skitzee2k]

PR and coalitions do not result in 'tempered' politics...it results in 'you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours' politics.

Say you are 4 seats short of pushing through a bill that you believe will be really good for the country, would be fantastic infact. The BNP have 4 seats and will take up the whip IF you allow them to disallow nonwhites from their party....
THAT is how it works. You can't water down most policies...can you scrap half of trident? No, you keep that...you scrap cuts to inheritance tax.. It is all under table deals, which results in a manifesto NO-ONE voted for whatsoever.

 

[RedHerring2]

I can understand you having a low opinion of politicians but to suggest that any politician worthy of anyone's vote would allow another political party to flout the law of the land is bit too negative for me.

They might as well 'cross the floor' 'cos there's no way they'd get the same votes again.
You can ensure that most policies have had sufficient scrutiny, have the support of the majority of MPs, of the electorate or are in the best interests of the country and the dissenting MPs, electorate are persuaded to support it.

That's grown-up politics, not the "it's my ball so we'll play to my rules" politics that the two major parties would have us practice.

 

[joinerjohn]

So, you're in a cafe, and you tell the proprieter...

"Well, i really like bread..... and i quite like cheese... but i'm not really keen on ham..."

so they bring you a ham sandwich?

That's British politics for you... we need electoral reform, and we need it now !!!!

But you forget my dear martian, ,,, If you were an MP and went into this cafe, you would actually order a French Stick with Roquefort cheese and Parma ham. The proprietor would then charge you £3.50 for this, but inadvertently give you change for £20 even though you had only given him a fiver. You would then claim £23.50 for the sandwich when filling in your expenses claim form, after forgetting to keep the receipt.
And that my friend, is the real way that politics work.