Service Head Query

[danburns]

Some time ago, nPower came round to change the meter (not sure why, possibly just due to the age of it). The chap said he couldn't do it because of the type of our service head. We've changed to Southern Electric now, and nothing has been said about changing the meter since.

I've attatched a pic of the service head to see if anyone thinks that it should be changed - apologies for the quality but it's from my phone. Is this type of cutout still safe, or should we call someone to get it changed?

Untitled

• danburns
• 26 Apr 2011
• 1

Cheers

Dan

 

[ricicle]

There could possibly a fused neutral in the cut-out which DNOs are trying to eradicate. Also, although DNOs have some different rules, it is not good practice to attach an earth clamp to a cable sheath to obtain an earth (Although it is perfectly acceptable to use the sheath as the earth)
Try and speak to your network operator (ie those that maintain the electrical system in your area - not neccesarliy who you pay your bill to !)

 

[Chri5]

The consensus is that cast iron / metal mains heads are past a sell by date.

Although different district network opperators (DNO's) have different views.

I'd chase it up, and ask for a meter change. You could always pull the DNO's leg a bit by suggesting the meter v a owl monitoring unit show a consistantly different reading. That should suggest that maybe the meter is running slow and is costing them.

 

[westie101]

There is a constant battle between meter operators and DNOs over this sort of situation.

That design is perfectly alright (known as a tin bath). Unfortunately meter operator staff for various reasons are not allowed to remove fuses from them or other metal-clad cut-outs.

It's worth talking to the DNO but they may already have been approached.

 

[Wontdothatagain]

Our company rules state we are not allowed to remove the cover from this type of service head as it has a non hindged metal cover. The reason is that there have been a couple of instances where the meter op has pulled the top down and the bottom has slipped onto the live terminals inside the head. I will say that it is unlikly with this head but our code of practise say "NO".

 

[westie101]

That's where the problem arises, we only have 2 specific types we can't enter and are trained to asses all others, so keep getting MOPs asking for cut-outs to be changed that we have no problems with.

We are now suggesting if a supplier wants one changing that we consider safe, the supplier should bear the cost.

 

[Stoday]

You could always pull the DNO's leg a bit by suggesting the meter v a owl monitoring unit show a consistantly different reading. That should suggest that maybe the meter is running slow and is costing them.

Erm —

A slow meter won't cost the DNO, it'll cost your supplier. Even if the DNO and supplier are in the same group (such as EDF), supplier and DNO remain separate companies with separate accounts.

 

[Steve]

We are now suggesting if a supplier wants one changing that we consider safe, the supplier should bear the cost.

But surely they will all need changing eventually - why charge someone else for changing an obselete product on your network that they are required to access but consider dangerous due to its obseleteness?

 

[westie101]

We do change them as time and the regulator allows us to expend the monies.
The problem is that some of them have a lot of life left in them but fall under the blanket "we don't touch metal clad cut-outs" ban of the MOPs.

There is one design of 3phase 200A cut-out that was still being installed until recently, investigation showed that the MOPs wanted them changed as they did not want to purchase the correct equipment to work on them.

It is a judgement call that is made from time to time

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ah - the benefits of privatisation.....

 

[rebuke]

Erm —

A slow meter won't cost the DNO, it'll cost your supplier. Even if the DNO and supplier are in the same group (such as EDF), supplier and DNO remain separate companies with separate accounts.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'm wondering how this works given that multiple suppliers use the same DNO network, presumably the suppliers 'put in' financially a contribution on the basis of how much their customers have 'used', so if they're being undermetred then while yes the supplier loses the profit they would have made on the non charged electricity, surely the DNO loses the actual cost of providing that electricity?

Obviously, on an individual basis its chump change to a DNO, but I guess it could add up if its happening regularly?

 

[westie101]

The charging regime is (surprise) complicated.
The suppliers pay "use of system" charges to both the National Grid and the DNO. If a meter is found to be under-registering, or has illegely been bypassed the DNO can calculate (guess/estimate) the number of units lost and bill the supplier for them, this amount the supplier has to pay. How the supplier recovers this from the customer is their problem!!
(see B.A.S.'s comment above)

 

[Wontdothatagain]

The charging regime is (surprise) complicated.

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/El...ments1/FP_6_DPCR5 Financial methodologies.pdf

Just incase you want to know more

 

[Wontdothatagain]

I have several disputes going on with 2 different DNO's at the moment,

400A cast iron head, CT supply, 95mm tails soldered into the top of fuse holder. On L3 there is a 16mm tails also soldered with the 95mm supplying a single phase 80A meter and the head back board has rotted away and fallen away from the wall. DNO has so far refused to replace the head so we can have a seperate fuse holder from the incoming side of the supply cable.

3 seperate metal clad fuse holders, 200A, Aspestos arc shields, incoming cable is potted and then 4 seperate VIR cables upto the fuse holders and are soldered into the bottom, the solder has started to crack and fall out and has created a little mount which is tracking across and has made the fuse holder live, lit the drummond up loke a Xmas tree. This is in a care home for elderly people with dementia and they cant be without power. They want a gen set onsite as the cable needs replacing as well. DNO will not pay , supplier will not pay, customer does not seem to think he should pay. "LIVE EQUIPMENT" labels and a barrier have been attached. Same DNO as above. Might still have some pictures of that one.

Cant talk about the other one as i will get into trouble if i put to many details out there as it has got quite nasty.

My point is, meter op's try to do a good job and follow guide lines quite offen set by DNO's and then have situations like above thrown at them.

 

[westie101]

The big problem is these legacy setups, in the first case we would have difficulty looping from the bottom side to a 100A cut-out for the whole current meter so would need to install a new service.
Though would certainly change the board.
(we have one similar - is it the same one I ponder)

In the second case changing the head is no issue, the generator is as it would need their own electrician to connect it and would mean a short outage anyway to connect and disconnect and would need a place on their own wiring to connect it safely. If their supply is that important how do they cope for a fault? Should they not have their own permanent installation. (bear in mind that no DNO guarantees a supply)
Our owned gen sets are for fault restoration (so if one were booked it could be reallocated to a no supply fault) and not for this sort of use, the hire costs for a day would be high in comparison to the cost of the job.

(having given the official line a sensible person would use a bit of discretion)