An access or inspection chamber?So, if a woman climbs into one of these...
...then what is it called?!
Shed electrics
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I don't really see how respecting people's wishes as to how they are described has got anything to do with 'political correctness', nor that having such wishes necessarily makes them stupid.
It's amazing what happens to this Electrics forum, particularly at weekends. I merely used a non-gender-specific term instead of "man-days" when making suggestions as to how the labour costs should be expressed in quotations for electrical work - and people then decided that it must be 'word playtime'!
I wish my personality and will power were such that I could resist getting involved in these discussions (when other people start them), since it's really not the sort of thing I joined an Electrics forum for. When I want to "put the world to rights" I do so with a glass in my hand in a pub or other appropriate venue.
Kind Regards, John
Please look more closely, and actually bother to think, about what "political correctness" really is, and more importantly what it is not.
If it is anything, it is simply the principle that you should think about the things you say and do to avoid needlessly, thoughtlessly or gratuitously giving offence to people.
It does not mean that councils cannot put up Christmas lights for fear of offending non-Christians.
It does not mean that the "Baa Baa Black Sheep" nursery rhyme has to have its words changed.
It does not exist in the pejorative sense meant by those who use the term to complain. In that sense it is a concept invented by people who wish to discredit liberal and progressive social policies.
You are, sadly, bandying the term "PC" about in a way which ridicules it like those do who have been brainwashed by the likes of the Mail and the Express into believing that is what PC is. What people like that do is to promulgate that notion (or, if that doesn't work, make up lies such as councils banning Christmas lights) so that they can bang on about "political correctness gone mad", their ultimate aim being to bring about an environment where any criticism of racism, or sexism, (or <whatever>ism), is all daft and over-sensitive, and is all "political correctness gone mad", and slowly and insidiously that view takes hold.
What happens then is that other people start to act as if political correctness means bending over backwards to not give offence where none can be taken, or to deliberately avoid doing anything where gender, or race, or whatever is a genuine factor.
What happens then is that some people running nurseries think they do have to change the words of Baa Baa Black Sheep. Which is stupid and offensive to anybody who can think.
What happens then is that child sexual exploitation goes on for years and years without being properly investigated because the agencies involved believe that political correctness means it would be "racist" go after the perpetrators because they are Asian. How many children's lives were utterly and permanently ruined because those expressing views like your created this false notion of what "political correctness" is?
Do not be someone like that.
If you think that actresses would not welcome that, you presumably must believe that they feel that they would fare badly in competition with their male counterparts. Is that necessarily true?
Both males and females would presumably 'not welcome it' if it resulted in an approximate halving of the number of awards, since that would clearly reduce the chance of any of them winning!
Kind Regards, John
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Every shred of related evidence shows that they would.
True, but I think the effects would be disproportionally felt by women.
Ok.
That is just good manners. If that is political correctness then I apologise for using the term wrongly.
What would that be called if they were to do that?
I think that is what people generally regard as political correctness.
Ironically, perhaps it has evolved to mean that.
That's not what I was doing.
I am only complaining about the news media calling a woman by a masculine word.
I do not agree that that is what I was doing. I am sorry for bandying.
What is that bending over backwards called?
What is that called?
I fail to see how criticising the use of a wrong word because some see a perverted need to not use the correct word is any of those things.
On the contrary, it is the opposite.
I am not. I object to needless dogma for an ulterior motive.
What is that called?
I would think it politically incorrect (your meaning) to call women by masculine terms.
It is what political correctness originally was.
Offensively ignorant stupidity?
If so then that is entirely the fault of people using the term in a pejorative sense like you.
You were.
It may have been unconscious, it may have been unintentional, but you were being a cog in the machine which seeks for ideological reasons to discredit liberal and progressive social policies.
Called by whom? By those who wish to discredit liberal and progressive social policies it is called political correctness. They do that so that they can then say (which would be true if they were correct in what they called it) "it's political correctness gone mad". That way they drag the concept of actively thinking about avoiding needlessly, thoughtlessly or gratuitously giving offence to people into the same class as banning Christmas lights so as not to offend non-Christians, or changing the words of Baa Baa Black Sheep.
By all means criticise on etymological grounds. But do not claim that it is any facet of political correctness, for it is not.
What is the ulterior motive?
Are you implying it has become something else.
Alright.
Fair enough. I shall not do it again.
Do I in future use offensively ignorant stupidness?
It doesn't seem to capture the real misguidedness of them.
Are you saying calling women actors is a liberal and progressive social policy?
No, by you and me.
What do we call offensively ignorant stupid misguided people who would cancel Christmas because they thought it offends other religions.
What term do we use for the people causing the etymological nonsenses?
A noun for the offensively ignorant stupid misguided doing things for the wrong reasons.
I would think it was introduced by militant feminists of the acting profession to somehow further their objectives.
Possibly to the chagrin of other actresses who disagree with the stupidity of it.
In other words, what is a pejorative term for those who misguidedly think they are being politically correct (your meaning) even tough there is no valid reason for them to do it?
So, if a woman climbs into one of these...
...then what is it called?!
A climb? A descent?
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Well, for what it's worth I'm pretty much with ban all sheds here.
Remember, the aim is to make sure everyone capable sees being an electrician is a viable and welcoming career, whether they are female, black, transgender or any other group. It's their ability that matters.
To that aim, if there's something unnecessary standing in the way, eg poor language making any group feel unwelcome, discouraged or excluded, then it's our duty to change that if we care about people (if you're more left wing) or equality of opportunity (right wing).
The question to debate then becomes clear. Is our language contributing to women feeling unwelcome in the trade? If yes, use better language, if not, then any verbal gymnastics is "political correctness gone mad".
Remember, the aim is to make sure everyone capable sees being an electrician is a viable and welcoming career, whether they are female, black, transgender or any other group. It's their ability that matters.
To that aim, if there's something unnecessary standing in the way, eg poor language making any group feel unwelcome, discouraged or excluded, then it's our duty to change that if we care about people (if you're more left wing) or equality of opportunity (right wing).
The question to debate then becomes clear. Is our language contributing to women feeling unwelcome in the trade? If yes, use better language, if not, then any verbal gymnastics is "political correctness gone mad".
Indeed, and I should have made ir clear that, when I said that I was often sarcastic or rude about "PC" in a response to EFLI, I meant "PC" in the sense that he was using the phrase (as do very many others) - which, as you imply, should properly be described assomething like "political correctness gone mad" (just as with "Health and Safety gone mad").
As you also say, true 'political correctness' is essentially about decency and respect for others - i.e. the view that would not find it acceptable if people still used the (potentially offending) language of my grandparents that I previously mentioned.
Kind Regards, John
The term has become something used by those who are ideologically driven to want to discredit liberal and progressive social policies.
Then find something to call them which you think does capture the real misguidedness of them. Not "political correctness".
No, I'm not. You're missing the point. Changing the words of Baa Baa Black Sheep is not a liberal and progressive social policy, but it was done by people who thought that they had to do it in order to be "politically correct". They thought that because of the way that those who are ideologically driven to want to discredit liberal and progressive social policies have for years maintained that that sort of thing is what political correctness is.
I don't know. Idiots? Ignoramuses? Morons?
I know one thing we do not call them: "politically correct".
What are their objectives?
As an aside, please note that it was militant feminists who got the vote for women. It was militant groups of one sort or another which have achieved almost all (if not all) liberal/democratic/etc advances in societies. I wonder what sort of country we would live in if some people had not been prepared to be militant in campaigning for social reforms. Power concedes nothing without demand. It never did and it never will.
Indeed. As JohnD recently wrote, echoing my thoughts, I would think that something like "political correctness gone mad" is probably appropriate - as I said, analogous to "Health and Safety gone mad", "Regulations gone mad" etc. etc.
Kind Regards, John
But that does reinforce the idea that there is some connection between political correctness and offensively ignorant behaviour.
It does allow the "gone mad" to get dropped and the whole culture of political correctness tainted with the whiff of madness.
It does allow the "gone mad" to get dropped and the whole culture of political correctness tainted with the whiff of madness.
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