Snow/winter tyres

[stuartturbo]

Not just 4x4
I know The evo and later VR4 if you get a puncture on the front you have to
take a rear off
Fit space saver
fit rear on Front

To clear Brakes calipers

 

[jetex]

But it's still going on a driven axle.

Yeah, that's true, and I don't know how that gets past the legislation. I still can't get my head around how some manufacturers (Vauxhall), fit 15" wheels to the car, and then giving you a 14" spare.

 

[Burnerman]

They must fit a 14" tyre with a high aspect ratio to get past that one......
maybe those cans of Finilec are worth carrying. What a faff.
John

 

[jetex]

Finilec is no good if you've got a gash in your tyre John. Most types of the foam stuff you get instead of a wheel is useless. Some of them are 'glue' based, this means that as well as temporarily repairing the puncture, they glue the tyre to the rim so that when you go to get the simple puncture permanently repaired, the tyre fitters damage the tyre when trying to remove it from the rim. So instead of a simple repair, you now need a new tyre !. We use 'Slime', which is an American water based product. This can be washed out when the tyre fitters permanently repair the tyre. Unfortunately though, you still need a foot pump or air compressor. Some time ago, Rover removed the spare wheel from the '75' model. There was such an outcry that they re-introduced it !

 

[Mickymoody]

Finilec is no good if you've got a gash in your tyre John. Most types of the foam stuff you get instead of a wheel is useless. Some of them are 'glue' based, this means that as well as temporarily repairing the puncture, they glue the tyre to the rim so that when you go to get the simple puncture permanently repaired, the tyre fitters damage the tyre when trying to remove it from the rim. So instead of a simple repair, you now need a new tyre !. We use 'Slime', which is an American water based product. This can be washed out when the tyre fitters permanently repair the tyre. Unfortunately though, you still need a foot pump or air compressor. Some time ago, Rover removed the spare wheel from the '75' model. There was such an outcry that they re-introduced it !

I agree with the foam type stuff - keep well away!

To complicate matters even more, you can't have different circumference wheels on the front axle, as they destroy the steering geometry, and will cause the remaining tyre to be out of track, and go bald, over any distance, on it's edge, if you drive a rear wheel drive car. (As you can't use the spacesaver on the front anyway if it is front wheel drive); and it's true about spacesavers being totally useless on a 4x4, and when using a spacesaver, you aren't allowed to drive over 50mph, but the crowning glory is DRUMROLL..........

It's ILLEGAL NOT to carry a spacesaver! If you break down on the motorway, and have to be towed, due to tyre failure, then you are fined, for not carrying a spare. I think it's an £85 fine, (plus recovery), as not having a serviceable wheel, ie your rim might be damaged, and the vehicle untowable.

Daft laws that nobody knows! Did you know that it isn't a right to drive on the roads, but a priviledge, as it's the Queens highway, even though you passed a test to get a license? A bus stop is called a clearway? A bus stop in a bus station is called a stance? Most road marking are marked incorrectly, but appeals are upheld? Due to the camera angles used by wardens? There is no law that says you are allowed to park outside your own house, but strangers can, but not block your drive? But if you block a car parked in front of your house, then the police get involved? And seemingly have the right to take control of your vehicle and break it. (Bitterness there!)...

 

[RedHerring2]

After doing a bit of research round the 'net, I've found that a) there is an exemption to the "different tyre on same axle" law for speeds not exceeding 50mph. hence the restriction on spacesavers. (AutoExpress)
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/230895/are_spacesavers_safe.html
There is currently a spacesaver that can be safely driven to 80mph, but not legally.

The AA and Autoexpress make no mention of not using the spacesaver on the driven axle.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/non-standard-spare-wheels.html

Furthermore the AA specifically state that a spacesaver can be used on any axle when towing.

Other websites discuss the problems of differentials overheating when using the spacesaver on driven axles, but it seems all of this is theoretical.
Although the AA have no distance limit for driving a spacsaver, they do state 1) take note of manufacturers instructions and 2) drive direct to a suitable repairer.

Perhaps another one for Mythbusters?

 

[RedHerring2]

It's ILLEGAL NOT to carry a spacesaver! If you break down on the motorway, and have to be towed, due to tyre failure, then you are fined, for not carrying a spare. I think it's an £85 fine, (plus recovery), as not having a serviceable wheel, ie your rim might be damaged, and the vehicle untowable.

I could say "Rubbish"
There is no legal requirement to carry a spare, a jack or a wheel brace.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/tyres.html
But if it is used it must comply with the legal requirements for tyres.

On the point about fines (penalty) for not carrying a spare, it's variable. Green Flag will not apply any penalty for not having a spare.
Switchcover do:
http://www.swiftcover.com/breakdown/faq/

AA may if the vehicle normally carries a spare. But for vehicles with runflat tyres or other emergency measures no penalty is applied.

Britannia Rescue may charge for having to go and get a spare or to transport you to a repairer.

There will be others that I haven't checked on.

At the end of the day, apparently it's quite a risky affair changing tyres on the service lane so a £85 charge may be a lifesaver.

There is no legal penalty applicable, it's just the cost of the rescue that must be covered.

In all my years/miles of motoring I can't remember the last time I had to change a tyre, other than intentionally changing all wheels for off-road tyres and back again. Now I just lower pressures and pump them back up again afterwards.
Others may have had several recent experiences of changing tyres. So I guess it's all about risk/cost/experience, even driving ability. (if you keep banging the kerb your tyres will suffer)
You either have the insurance of carrying a full size spare, or you carry a spacesaver knowing that it's a temporary fix, or you have some other emergency measure, and possibly might incurr some cost in the event of a flat.
You takes your choice.

 

[Burnerman]

Say you had a Mini, and you didn't use run flats, I wonder how you would stand with the recovery people?
John

 

[RedHerring2]

I guess, if the vehicle manufacturer fits runflats as standard, and when you renew the tyres you go for normal tyres, well it's down to the interpretation of the recovery company/driver.
But if you replace your runflats for another system, it will still depend on the policy of the recovery company, assuming you have a recovery policy in force.
If not, you pay the going rate.

You could say the whole practice is variable and 'finger-in-the-wind'. But currently the invoices are not exorbitant, and may be life-saving.

In summary, the cost of a spare, of any sort, must be somewhere around £100 at least. Add to that the cost of the jack and wheel brace, and the cost of carrying it around for ever and a day, and the hassle of changing a wheel yourself. £85 for a recovery/new spare, fitted is excellent value, even if the cost of the spare is additional.

Let's hope the recovery companies don't read these posts.

Just to reiterate; It's not a fine, it's a charge levelled by the recovery company/operator. Your Breakdown insurance may or may not cover it.
A simple 'phonecall to your breakdown insurance will advise you.

 

[jetex]

If the vehicle is designed to have a spare wheel but doesn't have one, Recovery organisations will refuse any recovery, and may help to get a spare wheel and tyre during daylight hours if it doesn't take up too much time. They also carry equipment to temporarily repair the punctured tyre if possible. Out of hours, if a temporary repair cannot be made, recovery will only be arranged to a local destination, or a 24 hour tyre company will be called at the customers expense. It's all in the relevant section of the members' handbook. PS: Don't ask me how I know...........

 

[PJF220]

By law if you carry a spare wheel it has to be servicable so if you read the law to the exact word, the minute you get a puncture and fit the spare, your now 'spare' is not servicable so you can either leave it at the side of the road... oh, hang on, that's fly tipping.... or you cannot continue with your journey. So basically 'by the word of the law' the spare is a useless weighty item causing your fuel consumption to increase.

Or you can appply common sense and use the space saver as an emergency to get you to safety or to a tyre shop where a replacement tyre can be dealt with.

 

[PJF220]

but the crowning glory is DRUMROLL..........

It's ILLEGAL NOT to carry a spacesaver! If you break down on the motorway, and have to be towed, due to tyre failure, then you are fined, for not carrying a spare. I think it's an £85 fine, (plus recovery), as not having a serviceable wheel, ie your rim might be damaged, and the vehicle untowable.

That has to be utter tosh. Skoda Octavia's come new from the factory with no spare wheel, just a can of glue and a pump. The spare wheel is an optional extra. That would suggest that every time a Skoda gets a flat and the original owner did not pay the extra, they get a fine??????

On a side note to recovery firms refusing recovery to cars without spares, I never got questioned when I got a blow out in my Hillman Imp and had the spare at home with the paint drying. I just got put on the back of the truck and taken home.

 

[RedHerring2]

If the vehicle is designed to have a spare wheel but doesn't have one, Recovery organisations will refuse any recovery, and may help to get a spare wheel and tyre during daylight hours if it doesn't take up too much time. They also carry equipment to temporarily repair the punctured tyre if possible. Out of hours, if a temporary repair cannot be made, recovery will only be arranged to a local destination, or a 24 hour tyre company will be called at the customers expense. It's all in the relevant section of the members' handbook. PS: Don't ask me how I know...........

I think you could have worded that more accurately:
Some Recovery organisations may refuse any recovery, others may charge you for the service.

I accept you may have experience, but isn't that with one company?
A search around various company policies/small print or phone call to companies will resolve the issue.

If your recovery company will not provide recovery in this instance or will charge you, then you may as well pay for a private recovery.
But be aware, if you are not carrying a spare wheel and your recovery company won't provide recovery, it's like declining the insurance for if you ever need one, due to a flat tyre.

Some companies will provide recovery in these instances! You just have to check when you're re-newing. If everyone asked the question and re-newed accordingly the companies may change their policies.

As I said before; You takes your choice.

 

[Scuttydug]

Can I take this discussion back to the topic of Winter Tyres. Where is the cheapest place to get them?

I bought a set of winter tyres for my wife's from mytyres.co.uk last year and eventually got them (i ordered them on day 1 of the bad weather and they only arrived 2 days before the worst of it cleared).

Thinking of getting another set for my car for this winter.

Also thoughts on getting a spare set of steel wheels / paying to get the wheels transferred over twice a year?

 

[Stivino]

I don't know where the cheapest place is but as you seem to be in Fife you could try this place.
http://tinyurl.com/3dmj7bo
They do winter tyres for a friend of mine. They store the spare set for you and swop them over for you when it suits you.