Socket to socket

[NottmTony]

Hi



if you look at the photo you can see some wires coming out of the wall (this is where a single socket used to be) , you will also see a hole in the floor board , this is where the second cable (with yellow insulation tape) came up from the floor board to join with the other cable in the socket (the cable used to run in front of the skirting board and into the socket from beneath)

The cable coming out of the wall is the live one, the other cable feeds another double socket.

I'm wondering how safe and legal this is?
And depending on the answer and i can proceed, am i able to have both these cables coming out the wall and joining into the socket ?

Thanks

Untitled

• NottmTony
• 1 Jun 2015
• 1

 

[JohnW2]

Here you go ...

Untitled

• NottmTony
• 1 Jun 2015
• 1

Someone will probably be along shortly to give you a lecture about how and why you should have done this yourself, and why I'm wrong to have done it for you!

Edit: Oh - your pic wasn't there when I first saw your post! Ah well!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The cable coming out of the wall is the live one, the other cable feeds another double socket.
I'm wondering how safe and legal this is?
And depending on the answer and i can proceed, am i able to have both these cables coming out the wall and joining into the socket ?

So cables in wall are live, but the second cable is dead?
What type of circuit is this ring or radial?
If a ring it looks like a spurred set up, and depending on if there is a fusd connection unit upstream, would dictate whether this is compliant to the regulations, to join/rejoin these together.

If radial circuit you could, but regardless of circuit type, you have responsibility to make sure things are safe.

 

[ericmark]

If that live wire is supplied from a fuse or MCB of 20 amp or less then it may be extended. I will assume it is 2.5mm² cable so if the supply is from a 30A fuse or 32A MCB direct then you can't extend it.

Trying to make it simple a 2.5mm² cable which is normal size used for sockets is limited to around 20A so either it needs a fuse at the origin or at the destination.

For protection at destination.

Where a cable supplies a single device it is considered the fuses in the plugs will limit to output to below 20A although you could have two 13A items plugged into one double socket it is unlikely they will take that power for an extended time so they are permitted.

However two single 13A sockets are not permitted I really can't tell you why.

Where the protection is at origin then you can daisy chain as many sockets as you likely as long as cable length is not exceeded. So with a 20A MCB you could supply 100 sockets.

In the house we often use a ring final circuit this means two cables supply every socket so since doubled up we are permitted to use a 30A fuse or 32A MCB post war the number of sockets in a house were increased to over double the pre-war numbers so houses when from 2 x 15A to 5 x 13A sockets. Seemed a lot then, but today 5 sockets is hardly enough.

With a 30A fuse and 7/0.029 cable taking a spur from a spur did not comply, but it was unlikely to cause a problem, but when we went to 2.5mm² cable then the overloading of spurs became a real problem.

In Europe they use radials at 16A each so 2.5mm² cable is ample, but in the UK the ring final using 2.5mm² cable with a 32A supply is right on the edge so we have to be very careful to follow the rules.

 

[NottmTony]

OK, can I have 2 mains cables coming up behind that skirting board in parallel together (and very close possibly touching) join their wires i.e. both lives to live etc to power the next socket along ?

Is that OK ?

Will the 2 cables get hot near each other ?

 

[JohnW2]

OK, can I have 2 mains cables coming up behind that skirting board in parallel together (and very close possibly touching) join their wires i.e. both lives to live etc to power the next socket along ? Is that OK ? Will the 2 cables get hot near each other ?

Having the cables in proximity will not be an issue - but you really need to find out exactly what is going on in that circuit (and what sort of circuit it is) before you do anything.

Kind Regards, John

 

[NottmTony]

It used to work - I just disconnected it all to tidy the cabling up and replace the old socket with a new one - so it "should" be ok ?

It's on an RCD.

 

[deadshort]

Hi, if the circuit is supplied from a 16A OR 20A MCB you can reconnect as before. If the circuit is 32A you can connect one double socket to your existing live cable coming out the wall that would comply with regs. If you connect a Fuse connection unit to the live cable and then supply the sockets from that, you can add as many sockets as you wish, but, remember the maximum load on the sockets will be 13a total.

Regards,

DS

 

[Jackrae]

If it's on an RCD why hasn't it tripped since the neutral and the "earth" (CPC) seem to be in contact with each other. If they are/were in contact and the RCD hasn't/didn't tripped then you have even more problems to look into.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, if the circuit is supplier from a 16A OR 20A MCB you can reconnect as before. If the circuit is 32A you can connect one double socket to your existing live cable coming out the wall that would comply with regs.

There are a fair number of assumptions implicit in that latter bit. As I said, I would want to know, for sure, exactly what the circuit was, and how it was arranged, before I did anything. What you are suggesting above would presumably not make it any worse than it was before, but, if it's protected by a 32A MCB, it's possible that the whole circuit is (and was) non-compliant, and possibly potentially dangerous (e.g. if it's a broken ring).

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

If it's on an RCD why has it tripped since the neutral and the "earth" (CPC) seem to be in contact with each other. If they are/were in contact and the RCD hasn't/didn't tripped then you have even more problems to look into.

Good point - but maybe they are not (quite) in contact.

Kind Regards, John

 

[NottmTony]

They look like they are touching in that photo !! They are not though honest !!

 

[JohnW2]

They look like they are touching in that photo !! They are not though honest !!

Fair enough - but, as has been implied, if it is an RCD-protected circuit and they were to touch, then the RCD would very probably trip. It would be best to put at least the neutral into a bit of connector block (like you've done with the live), to stop that happening.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If the OP disconnected the dead cable, can we assume that he/she knows where he/she disconnected from?

If they are joined (this and one at wall) they maybe a danger when made live, that the circuit then has two protective devices.

There is certainly a case for more investigative work, to be done be a skilled person (electrically)

 

[JohnW2]

There is certainly a case for more investigative work, to be done be a skilled person (electrically)

Exactly. There's no point in speculating about or discussing all the possibilities, but without knowing full details of the circuit(s) one is dealing with, it really isn't, IMO, advisable (or necessarily safe, or reg-compliant) for anyone to do anything.

Kind Regards, John