sockets not working

[dfub]

Hi, I have recently changed the sockets in our house to nice new ones. Nothing fancy, no changing singles to doubles or adding new ones, just a simple swap. Last night, the power went off in the living room, on further examination it was just those sockets plus 1 in the kitchen that don't work now. The fuse hasn't blown in the CU unit, as i've checked, rechecked and swapped it. Would i be correct in thinking that the fault will lie at a loose live connection in a WORKING socket?
(This is to save me taking off every socket, searching in vain)

Also, we currently have a CU with 4 old style fuses in it, how much (roughly) would it be to get this changed to one with circuit breakers?

Thanks for any help offered (p.s. i did a search on this, but didn't find the exact info i needed)
DF

 

[andy]

Hi, I have recently changed the sockets in our house to nice new ones. Nothing fancy, no changing singles to doubles or adding new ones, just a simple swap. Last night, the power went off in the living room, on further examination it was just those sockets plus 1 in the kitchen that don't work now. The fuse hasn't blown in the CU unit, as i've checked, rechecked and swapped it. Would i be correct in thinking that the fault will lie at a loose live connection in a WORKING socket?
(This is to save me taking off every socket, searching in vain)

Also, we currently have a CU with 4 old style fuses in it, how much (roughly) would it be to get this changed to one with circuit breakers?

Thanks for any help offered (p.s. i did a search on this, but didn't find the exact info i needed)
DF

the problem probably lies with the new sockets - take them off and double check all connections are tight and in the correct place

as for how much for a CU change, see item 9 here

 

[Thermo]

oi thats breezers job!

 

[andy]

oi thats breezers job!

i kno, but he's not here!

 

[dfub]

thanks for the info.

Whoops! sorry 'bout the "how much?" question

/me promises to read rules in future


DF

 

[Damocles]

What size is the fuse for these sockets?

If it is 30A, then you would expect them to be on a ring. A ring has two wires to each socket, which means that one broken connection by itself is not enough to cut power to all the sockets. There has to be two breaks.

So be careful. If it is a ring, leaving it with one break is potentially dangerous as the single cable still connected could be overloaded.

Are there other sockets on this same fuse which still work? Again, a ring with two breaks would leave the sockets on either end still working, with an isolated section in the middle.

Or maybe this is a smaller fuse and the sockets are in a single line of cable from one to the next. In that case it could be just one loose connection.

Also beware in case someone has created a long spur from a ring. If this is a fused spur with lots of sockets on it, then the spur fuse might have blown. Look for a lightswitch sized plate with a fuse in it which doesn't do anything obvious.

Or if it is a long spur with no fuse then this could be a single break. Only you are not supposed to put more than one socket on an unfused spur off a ring.

Remember, it is unusual for two faults to happen at once. One may have been lurking waiting to pounce.

 

[dfub]

Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure what sockets are on what fuse (there are two) and so cannot say if any on this particular ring are still working or not. One thing i did do, was borrow a plug in socket tester, which said there was 'no earth'

Do these sockets sound dangerous to use, the Earth is definately connected, but if it wasn't would it cause other sockets not to work? Or should i just bite the bullet and phone for an electrician?

Thanks for any help

DF

p.s. forgot to say, i am now using an RCD in one of those sockets, and it hasn't tripped out.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure what sockets are on what fuse (there are two) and so cannot say if any on this particular ring are still working or not.

1) You really should find out which ones are on which circuit, as this is vital life preserving knowledge.
2) But I thought you said that the sockets weren't working?

One thing i did do, was borrow a plug in socket tester, which said there was 'no earth'

No earth is a Very Bad Thing™

Do these sockets sound dangerous to use,

Not safe, that's for sure. Lack of an earth is not actively dangerous, any more than driving sensibly but without a seatbelt is actively more dangerous. You aren't more likely to have a crash, but if you do....

the Earth is definately connected,

To what?

but if it wasn't would it cause other sockets not to work?

No.

Or should i just bite the bullet and phone for an electrician?

If you can't find the problem, and you've possibly lost the earth, it mightn't be a bad idea...

p.s. forgot to say, i am now using an RCD in one of those sockets, and it hasn't tripped out.

Thought you said the sockets weren't working? In any event, a plug in RCD only monitors the current it's supplying to the load. It knows nothing about what's going on upstream of it, so the fact that it hasn't tripped tells you nothing....

 

[dfub]

It's just the living room sockets and 1 kitchen one that doesn't work, the upstairs ones do and also 4 more in the kitchen.

The earth wire is definately connected to the earth terminal on all the sockets. I used a tester on all of the sockets and on two of the sockets that work, it said 'no earth' (and of course, on the dead ones, there were no lights).

(sorry for being unclear in my posts)

I will triple quadruple check my connections again tomorrow

Thanks for all the help


DF

 

[mapj1]

Somewhere between the back of the socket, where the earth wire is connected, and the big earth terminal either in or near the fuse-board, what should been an electrically continuous chain has a break. Possibly not caused at the sockets you have been working on, but possibly. You really do have to
a) work out which sockets are on the same fuse
(pull fuse A and rush round with tester to see which sockets are live, these are on fuse B, replace fuse A, pull fuse B, and rush round with tester to see which sockets are live, these are on fuse A) A junior assistant helps at this point, as he can do the running. Any that 'never came on' are 'don't know'
Then inspect all sockets on each circuit in turn.
There should be two connected lives, two connected neutrals and two connected earths in the back of each socket on a ring main*. The back box may or may not be earthed too, but it is most important that both feed earths go to the socket earth contact.
Sorry, but you probably do need to open each socket in turn, somewhere, something has dropped off.
Let us know how it goes.
regards M.

*sockets feeding a 'spur* may have 3 of everything
**sockets that are a spur, will only have one of everything..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

*sockets feeding a 'spur* may have 3 of everything
**sockets that are a spur, will only have one of everything..

*** sockets which are a radial, or a leg of a radial, or a multi-socket spur will have 2 of everything. (BTW - a spur with more than one socket is a no-no unless it comes off a fused connection unit.)

 

[dfub]

Just to let you know how this all worked out. I called an electrician and it was a live wire that had burnt through on one of the sockets upstairs (which was still working). He checked everything and it seems that my house is wired on a radial circuit, as there are 2 x 30amp fuses, one for the cooker and the other for all the sockets (i think that's what he said). All the sockets are now working but apparently there is no continuity on the live, which he couldn't understand. Anyway 3 hours later, i'm happy enough.

Thanks for all your input,

DF