Solar Panels Questions.

[conny]

Are there different types of solar panels?
i.e. Do some have pipework running through which heats up when the sun shines on them or do they work differently?

How effective are they when there is no sunlight for days on end?

Do they still work effectively if positioned facing, say, east OR west instead of south?

What if there are a lot of trees/buildings around which cast a lot of shadows on the roof where the installation is?

How long does it take for the system to have paid for itself and begin making you a 'true' profit?

Many questions I know but a neighbour has just had it installed while my partner and I were out for about 6 hours and these are some of the questions we have been discussing together.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

There are different kinds, there are two types of system thermal solar (wet systems) that can be used to heat water within a cylinder.
Then photovoltaic, that work via a DC current being converted to AC via an inverter, also DC can be stored(battery) or used.

There are number of different types of the PV systems.
They are most effective facing south and shading does effect them also and and can render them unresponsive.
They do not need direct sun, as the work on daylight.

How efficient there are only time will tell!

 

[mandm65]

we are looking at the possibility of getting the Solar Panels installed for heating the water, we are not too keen on FIT payments or whatever its called.
It seems they are quite expensive to install but i guess its like a investment you need to make upfront to get rewards later?
If anyone has any pointers please feel free to share.
cheers

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

we are not too keen on FIT payments or whatever its called.

On a PV system the FIT is one of the main benefits.

 

[Norcon]

For people who can diy their own hydronic solar then anything the government has to offer is not worth bothering imo with and probably prohibited anyway.
When the government gets involved it turns into a cartel who are only out to scam the people. That's my view anyway.

A single vacuum panel, pump station and controller is only about £1500 quid these days tops.
The fits (ROCS here in the province) might be worthwhile if you got some mug qualified installer to sign it off. Not impossible!

 

[dishman]

I would first ask yourself, what is your motivation for wanting them:

1) To be Green - irrespective of costs...

2) To make money - using the FIT

3) To save money in the long term - i.e compensate for future high energy bills etc.


There are various views on how economic/efficient and worth it these panels are. It is also dependant on where you live your roof angle and direction it faces.

Just get your information from an independent source, not one linked to a company selling these things.

Maybe read this, it looks like a decent calculation for what you may get from installing the panels as a long term investment...

https://www.ebico.org.uk/blog/2013/...n-feed-in-tariffs-is-it-still-worth-bothering

I have read arguments that the hot water heating tubes are more appropriate for this climate than panels.....but I am not sure how accurate the source was.....they do not come with the benefit of a FIT though.

One thing that is somthing to note is that you can do many other things which will have a much quicker impact on your energy bills for a lot less.
Things like loft insulation, cavity walls. I read somewhere that the carbon savings of switching to LED lights is a lot bigger than one would think.

 

[Norcon]

For me its number three and don't need government help to achieve it.
Have already switched to SF. Solar now will cut my oil bill by 90% at least.

RoI is irellevant.
The sun pumps out enough energy in a single minute to power the whole world for a year!

 

[dishman]

RoI is irellevant.
The sun pumps out enough energy in a single minute to power the whole world for a year!

Yeh, but that won't help if their house is shaded by a tree

 

[Norcon]

Then get the chainsaw out.

 

[tony1851]

It seems they are quite expensive to install but i guess its like a investment you need to make upfront to get rewards later?

Yes, and after 150 years, the panels will have paid for themselves.

 

[Norcon]

It seems they are quite expensive to install but i guess its like a investment you need to make upfront to get rewards later?

Yes, and after 150 years, the panels will have paid for themselves.

Complete nonsense.
You don't calculate how long a fossil fuelled boiler takes to pay for itself so why calculate how long a solar boiler takes?

The biggest problem with solar is government involvement hiking taxes and creating taxes to fund it. And of course cheap fuel is another one.

 

[tony1851]

You don't calculate how long a fossil fuelled boiler takes to pay for itself so why calculate how long a solar boiler takes?

Quite true. But then we need boilers to keep warm during the winter. I don't see the economic case for spending thousands of pounds on an installation to boil an electric kettlle (on a sunny day).

 

[Norcon]

You don't calculate how long a fossil fuelled boiler takes to pay for itself so why calculate how long a solar boiler takes?

Quite true. But then we need boilers to keep warm during the winter. I don't see the economic case for spending thousands of pounds on an installation to boil an electric kettlle (on a sunny day).

They don't need sunny days and don't cost thousands.
£1500 quid for a fire bird system and will boil more than a kettle.
Navitrons Hi spec solar kit cost £1150 quid and that includes the cylinder.
Not too shabby eh?
Just get your roofing ladder out and get it bolted on.
And careful you don't fall.

Their pro Hi spec system for installers costs £1350 and includes this........

30 tube 47mm Vacuum Tube Slimline Solar Panel - manifold type (SFB3047AL)

Roof Mounting Kit

S1 Pump Station

MTDCV2 Solar Controller

Twinsol DN16 x 10m

12 x Twinnut16

2 x Twinniple16

12L Expansion Vessel

Mounting Bracket

Connection Pipe

5 litres Antifreeze

2 x SolarDek Roof Flashings

6 x DuoFit

2 x 22mm Compression Elbows

Spirovent

Discharge Vessel

KA12 Overvoltage Protector

I shouldn't be pushing their kit as I'm banned from their site for dissing solar. Maybe Martin will let me back in now?.

 

[dishman]

In a further response to the OP, what my post was driving at is that it is more than just putting panels on the roof and earning money or saving electricity.

First look at why you want to do it and then if it will benefit you and the way you live.

Is your roof at a good angle and facing South with no obstruction/shade that is a good start. Their efficiency is greatly reduced the further from due South you get.

There are different types of solar panel, so do your research:

http://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/which-solar-panels-are-best-how-much-should-i-expect-pay

(That page has some interesting info on it. Can't vouch for their independence though.)

Are you going to be using electricity during the day, while they are being most productive. Yes you can get storage solutions, but this will obviously bump up the cost and lead to a slightly more complex system.

Furthermore, you have to think about maintenance and eventual replacement. They may last 20 years maybe more, maybe less. So keep that in mind when you calculate potential earnings.

It is a minefield of hotly debated opinion as to weather they are truly worth it in our climate and our energy use habits. Try to cut through it and work out what is best for you.

If you just want it to cut down on future energy bill rises then you may not care about the up front costs. But without the FIT it may take you a lot longer to get payback on the system you installed.

You should consider how much you want to save in the long term against the up front cost of the system.

---Compare this to modern boilers - much more energy efficient than old non-condensing boilers. But with all modern appliances, the more complicated and with all the electronics they don't last as long....

My old Glowworm is now 35 years old, and has never broken down. It is F rated so I probably have much higher energy bills than many people. A modern condensing boiler may cut £300+ off my bill per year.

A good quality condensing boiler and installation may cost me £3000+. However modern boilers are only expected to last 10 years and are much more likely to break down and need repairs in that time....

so saving £300 for 10 years .....what do you know....£3000 by which time I need a new condensing boiler......so I have made no real saving...(unless gas prices really shoot up).....

So I am sticking with my Glowworm for now....

 

[mandm65]

Thanks guys for your input much appreciated.

Like OP I would agree that I am also in to save money in the long term. I agree with dishman that SP is full of hotly debated opinions and I guess it helps to make an informed odecision one must look at the facts and draw their own conclusion as I firmly believe there is not a such thing ‘one size fits all’.

I disagree with tony 1851 that it will require substantial period to see any returns, I believe that this is down to how you adopt the technology and perhaps it warrants some changes in the lifestyle to reap greater benefits. I agree we cannot all take shower in the afternoon but we can use washing machine/dish washer in the afternoon when the solar powered hot water at its optimal best.

In my case I am planning to install the wet UFH for my extension as well as converting the current living area to wet UFH. I appreciate that UFH will not be entirely served the SPs but am sure load on the boiler would be less to heat the water to serve the UFH requirement.

The other indirect benefit, although some might consider small, is that your boiler may have extended life, surely less cycles should extend its life.

If we go by Norcon’s suggested price guide it certainly make a lot of sense to seriously consider thermal PV, the million dollar question is whether you go DIY and hope that someone can certify your install (if you want to have government hand-outs) or go by the ‘qualified’ aka MCS installer route and pay over the odds but with the assurance that you will get the hand-outs.

Over to you experts.