Sorting out a mess... Ring on the end of a radial?

[EFLImpudence]

You should not be able to pull the wire out of a crimp.

Use uninsulated crimps with correct pliers.

 

[JohnW2]

Ah, I see - I misunderstood. I thought you meant that you had created permanent access to the JB.

Sorry, it was open to interpretation, but I have simply chain drilled some holes in the PB so I can see it.

Fair enough.

Feels slightly better to have it crimped and covered in adheasive shrink tube with crimps below as you get some mechanical strenght back. But im sure either works so I guess i dont mind which is used. Presumably they would just use the yellow 6mm crimp joiners, which can take 32amps or more?

It depends on one's views. If you have an appropriate tool (and if it is correctly set/adjusted - see recent discussion) and are confident of being able to produce a 'perfect crimp', then you're probably right. As you probably know, I am personally nervous about hand-crimped joints, particularly if inaccessible - not because I have any problems with 'a perfect crimp' but, rather, because whether or not one achieves a perfect crimp is operator-, tool- and tool-setting-dependent. However many people are totally happy with them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Iggifer]

You should not be able to pull the wire out of a crimp.

I totally agree and am pretty happy with my ratchet crimpers, just a big fan of Wagos vs Crimps

 

[JohnW2]

You should not be able to pull the wire out of a crimp.

Depends on how strong you are! As I recently reported, using TLC/Mercury crimper on its 'maximum squash' setting, with yellow insulated crimps on 4mm² conductors it took around 30kg force to pull them out (27kg and 32kg in two tests, IIRC) - many people are at least that strong! However, particularly if one uses strain relief of some sort, that really shouldn't be an issue.

What concerns me far more is that if one uses the same tool on a 'weaker' setting (e.g. as per the factory-set 'as supplied' setting) a gentle pull will often enable one to feel (but not see) very slight movement. Whilst it would still probably be extremely difficult to pull the conductor out, the fact that there is such 'feelable' movement makes me very concerned about the quality (and safety) of the electrical connection. As I said before, it certainly underlines the need to make sure the tool is 'set' appropriately - if my experience is typical, using the TLC ones 'as they come' would be very iffy.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dhutch]

Sounds like the wagos are pretty mechanically strong then, I have not seen them in the flesh to comment.

I have a half decent ratchet crimper for use on cars, all be it not calibrated, but appears to make a good join to me. I cant pull them apart without some sort of assistance, either to stop the thinner cable cutting my hand, or on larger cables, to give mechanical advantage to provide the pull required.

If you pull it hard enough im sure a Wago would give too, if nothing else, pull hard enough and you can overcome the copper itself.


Daniel

 

[dhutch]

Use uninsulated crimps with correct pliers.

Any reason to use uninsulated crimps (and the presumably inslulate them) rather than an insulated crimp?


Daniel

 

[Iggifer]

If you pull it hard enough im sure a Wago would give too, if nothing else, pull hard enough and you can overcome the copper itself

That's part of the reasoning behind installing in a suitable with strain relief, so you would then need to overcome the grip on the PVC too

 

[EFLImpudence]

Use uninsulated crimps with correct pliers.

Any reason to use uninsulated crimps (and the presumably inslulate them) rather than an insulated crimp?

The crimping tool has a prong (if that's the right word) which gives a much better crimp (you won't pull that out).

Insulation is bound to reduce the pressure on the actual metal part of a crimp.

 

[JohnW2]

Sounds like the wagos are pretty mechanically strong then, I have not seen them in the flesh to comment....

They are. The statement that to remove the conductor one simply has to just "pull whilst twisting" is verging on the seriously sarcastic - on a par with those infuriating photos of a man in a pristine white coat 'tapping out' a bearing from a non-rusted universal joint with a small rubber mallet!! The amount of violence required to remove a conductor from a push-in Wago is such that I would never consider re-using a push-in Wago connector that I had removed a conductor from (which is what they say you can do).

If you pull it hard enough im sure a Wago would give too, if nothing else, pull hard enough and you can overcome the copper itself.

Yes, of course. I've just done a test of a 4mm² conductor in a Wago 773-173. It took in excess of 40kg to pull it out (I can only measure to 40kg), appreciable more than with a yellow crimp. However, as has been said, 'pull-out resistance' is not an issue if one has strain relief. As I said, I'm far mre concerned when crimped joints exhibit 'feelable movement', without being easily pulled out.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dhutch]

That's part of the reasoning behind installing in a suitable with strain relief, so you would then need to overcome the grip on the PVC too

And how would you do that? Obviously although you have strain relief on appliances etc its not common on junction boxes.

Daniel

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's part of the reasoning behind installing in a suitable with strain relief, so you would then need to overcome the grip on the PVC too

And how would you do that?

I don't think the purpose of strain relief is to prevent someone pulling it out on purpose - unlike crimping.

Obviously although you have strain relief on appliances etc its not common on junction boxes.

It is now.

 

[EFLImpudence]

double post. my fault

 

[JohnW2]

Obviously although you have strain relief on appliances etc its not common on junction boxes.

It is now.

I'm not sure that 'common' is necessarily the issue - particularly in the present context, I think the point is that my understanding is that strain relief is (I would say, not surprisingly) one of the required features of a maintenance-free JB.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dhutch]

Obviously although you have strain relief on appliances etc its not common on junction boxes.

It is now.

I'm not sure that 'common' is necessarily the issue - particularly in the present context, I think the point is that my understanding is that strain relief is (I would say, not surprisingly) one of the required features of a maintenance-free JB.

Kind Regards, John

So does the, for instance the wago junction box, have strain relief?

Infact, ive just googled it, and what do you know. Fair play.


Daniel

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not sure that 'common' is necessarily the issue - particularly in the present context, I think the point is that my understanding is that strain relief is (I would say, not surprisingly) one of the required features of a maintenance-free JB.

So does the, for instance the wago junction box, have strain relief? Infact, ive just googled it, and what do you know. Fair play.

Quite so - and I presume that's one of the main reasons why Wagos only satisfy the 'maintenence-free' requirements if they are installed in a Wagobbx.

Kind Regards, John