Surface Trunking

[chriswyatt]

OK - there seems to be a growing consensus against surface trunking. But can I ask are you including the products from companies like Mita (UK) Ltd, and Hager Tehalit. I'm not talking about simple mini-trunking but purpose designed products. Some of the wiring would be chased into the wall and the skirting trunking doesn't preclude the use of flush mounted sockets in the wall above the skirting. But chasing and conduiting the whole run will be a horrible job - I have got to live, eat and sleep in what is essentially just the one large room. I'm not saying you are wrong and if this was a different kind of property I would take a different view. But before I commit myself to several weeks of eating dust, then replastering and redecorating when a straightforward run of about 20 metres of skirting trunking would avoid almost all of that, are you really saying that using purpose built skirting trunking would be the disaster that it is being painted here. The dado trunking would be a high quality product used in the kitchen area to provide a continuous run between the wall units and worktops. Are there similar strong feelings against the use of surface trunking here?

 

[sparkybird]

Hi Chris

Sorry you took the comments the wrong way - there is always a bit of gentle leg pulling on here! You did actually get your answer in reply no 2 and I did note that in your OP you said you would notify the work to the council.

At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with using trunking, what we are trying to say in our roundabout way it that it's not usually used for domestic environments and that chasing in the cables looks better visually in a home.

If your place is only a small flat, I wouldn't expect the chasing part of the work to take more that 1-2 days tops and then maybe a day for making good. However, this adds to the cost, so trunking might prove to be cheaper too.

It's your gaff, so you can have it how you want!

Good luck

SB

 

[Chri5]

since it's a total re-wire, sockets will need to be 450 from the floor precluding the use of skirting trunking anyway..

That's just wrong, wrong and more wrong.

The 450mm reg is minimum and does NOT prevent placement of sockets higher than the 450mm rule. If you want to place services in Dado trunking at 850-1100mm height you are quite able to do so.

I would also add that the OP is very likely to have all the skills necessary to do the simple work required. BT guys tend to have done training that is parallel to a sparks mate training, so cable positioning, cable runs and the termination of the odd lump of TE isn't rocket science.

After all, electricians quite happily mess with voice, data and Cat 5, so why not the other way round?

Just remember the Part P does apply, even if it's adapting an existing circuit as is a MW cert.

 

[securespark]

I asked a question. Two people gave a helpful response. Two others assumed I was a total d******d

I have read & re-read this stuff several times. I cannot see any assumption you are a d******d.

 

[chriswyatt]

Just me being a bit precious, I suppose. 30 years in BT starting as an engineering apprentice when the only phones you get were black sort of conditions you to react when someone suggests your carreer was as an apprentice. Still, water under the bridge. One thing I would say, though, is that all those years taught me to be very careful about criticising new ways of doing things, even if the early attempts were rubbish. Who knows - one day people might think we were all nuts to go knocking great holes in walls just to run a bit of a cable in when you could just as easily have put it in a bit of smart PVC trunking.

 

[ColJack]

The 450mm reg is minimum and does NOT prevent placement of sockets higher than the 450mm rule. If you want to place services in Dado trunking at 850-1100mm height you are quite able to do so.

and you learned to read where?

the comment you quoted quite clearly states SKIRTING TRUNKING.....

this is the stuff that goes round just above the carpet.. well below the 450 minimum..

can you provide links to some good looking dado and skirting trunking for us?

This is not me being funny, I am genuinely interested to see if they have improved from the stuff I've used in offices and such before..

 

[passerv]

450mm socket height.

Section 8 approved document M applies to new builds not rewires, AFAIK

TLC do a nice range of oval trunking.

Here

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Trunking_Pvc_Index/index.html

 

[Chri5]

The 450mm reg is minimum and does NOT prevent placement of sockets higher than the 450mm rule. If you want to place services in Dado trunking at 850-1100mm height you are quite able to do so.

and you learned to read where?

the comment you quoted quite clearly states SKIRTING TRUNKING.....

Calm down, try looking at the OP post 08:36 (at top of page )

The dado trunking would be a high quality product used in the kitchen area to provide a continuous run between the wall units and worktops. Are there similar strong feelings against the use of surface trunking here?

It is not I that can't read- Sorry if you don't like critic, and knee jerk an attempt at ??? back to me, but I can read- clearly better than you.

Anyway, do you STILL contest that the 450mm rule is fixed, or do you agree that it can be higher- such as DADO trunking

Your post was incorrect, please get over yourself.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Even if the 450mm height applies to rewires (which it doesnt) it doesnt apply to kitchens.
Try reading Doc M properly. In any even this is a flat and you can probably chuck most of the disabled access stuff out of the (3rd floor without a lift) window.

 

[ColJack]

That's just wrong, wrong and more wrong.

I at no time said anything about maximum heights..

It was the coment above made in reference to my comment that since sockets need to be 450 ( or more ) above the floor then you cannot use SKIRTING trunking for putting sockets in ( not sure on the use for telephone / data / tv etc.. )

you took a comment that was made before the OP mentioned dado trunking in the kitchen

 

[RF Lighting]

You only have to mount sockets at the new heights if the house is a new build, or a complete refurbishment

 

[citywest]

I have been reading this post with interest as I live in a flat but with reinforced concrete floors and ceilings, into which the original wiring has been embedded and not fed through conduit. Also, the solid brick walls have a very thin layer of plaster and as a result, the cables that run down from the ceiling to the light switches, and from the sockets to the floor make the plaster bulge as the plaster depth is just too shallow to hide them adequately. As a consequence, I have resigned myself to the fact that surface trunking will be required for the majority of a pending rewire. I am not an electrician, but my main interest is that the cable runs can look as neat as possible/practicable. I too am looking a skirting trunking (domestic looking, low profile and not the commercial items) and coving trunking for ceiling/wall edge runs.)
Now I have a couple of questions:
1) I wish to utilise the original flush light switch/socket cut-outs in the wall, but can additional sockets be kept at the same height which is about 300mm? Or has every socket location need to be 450mm height?
2) Does skirting trunking contravene that fact that the safe zone does not include a run across the wall at floor level, or is it ok because it is classed as trunking?
3) Is it ok to chase the wall from the back of the skirting trunking up to the socket so that no cables are visible? Or has the cable up to the socket also be in trunking as well? This involves channelling into the brick itself however.

As I say, I am not an electrician, so won’t be touching anything myself. I would just like an insight into some of the problems I could face before getting quotes etc. Any help or advice will be appreciated, especially when dealing with obstacles like solid ceilings and floors. Thanks.

 

[plugwash]

how old is this flat? does it really need rewiring or would some remedial work suffice to bring it up to spec?

1) I wish to utilise the original flush light switch/socket cut-outs in the wall, but can additional sockets be kept at the same height which is about 300mm? Or has every socket location need to be 450mm height?

you don't need to move them if its just a rewire but on certain types of renovation you may have to. Also some building control departments tend to get a little overzealous regarding part M which may be an issue if you aren't part of a self cert scheme and plan to do things by the book.

2) Does skirting trunking contravene that fact that the safe zone does not include a run across the wall at floor level, or is it ok because it is classed as trunking?

iirc the regs reffer to concealed cables. If its obviously trunking then its not concealed cables. The wooden trunking products are imo borderline noncompliant though because it may not be obvious that they are trunking.

3) Is it ok to chase the wall from the back of the skirting trunking up to the socket so that no cables are visible? Or has the cable up to the socket also be in trunking as well? This involves channelling into the brick itself however.

a shallow vertical channel in brick shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure what the exact rules are though.

 

[citywest]

how old is this flat? does it really need rewiring or would some remedial work suffice to bring it up to spec?

The flat was built in the early 1960's and the black rubber wiring is massive - I am not joking but it is the same size cable the is used to feed the cooker/lights and sockets! I have not yet been told that it does need a re-wire, but I think it is wise to arrange an examination. However what concerns me is that when replacing some of the light switches and sockets, the twisted wire was very fragile with some strands breaking away. Also inside the conduit box above the ceiling roses, the actual wire in parts have gone green - like verdigris. I don't know what effect this has however. Finally, there was an extension to the ring main for a new kitchen a few years back and it was discovered that a socket had been removed and the hole plastered over - but the 2 cables were not reconnected to each other meaning that the ring was not complete. I couldn't believe my eyes! This was 'put right...!' by adding a connection box in the socket hole. I know several flats in my block have had to have a rewire.

2) Does skirting trunking contravene that fact that the safe zone does not include a run across the wall at floor level, or is it ok because it is classed as trunking?

iirc the regs reffer to concealed cables. If its obviously trunking then its not concealed cables. The wooden trunking products are imo borderline noncompliant though because it may not be obvious that they are trunking.

The skriting I like the look of is made of white pvc and does look like normal skirting board and so yes, this does seem to be a grey area