telephone re-wire - what to fix on what looks a botch job

[hosh]

Hello

I`m trying to improve my home phone wiring, previously there were more than 40 metres strung up through the house a bit stupidly - I can cut this down to ten, and have the phone and router in a better position for us - also to replace the CW1308 telephone cable, which through being stapled to walls sustained a bit of damage. That`s the project in a nutshell anyway.

I should clarify the NTE5 master socket is connected to a further extension socket (by 40 metres of CW1308) - there is a micro filter for phone and adsl attached to this extension socket - nothing connected to front of the master socket.

(I admit right now I am learning an awful lot as I go, to mean there is much I do not know.)

So first off: where does BT`s property end and from where I am legally allowed to fix - this is the set up: in a small utility cabinet at the front of house (where the gas and elect metres are also) there is an old brown box:

View media item 66708
The white CW1308 cable comes out of the top and travels 5 metres to the back of the BT NTE5 Master socket.
Is it my side of the brown box or my side of the NTE5 master socket where my responsibility starts?

Next questions: this white cable from the brown box to the NTE5, when I look closely at the non-connected ends, its not copper (assuming copper can`t be silver/grey metal colour) - so what would it be and should I change it (if it is not BT`s property)??

Then: Looking at the brown box photo here, regardless of if its BT`s property or not, it just looks too much like a botch job, its very untidy. Am I right or could this be considered good work by BT?

Now the nitty gritty - you can see on the photo the brown box has:
1 - white/orange
2 - orange/white
3 - white/blue
4 - blue white

When this cable reaches the back of the NTE5, this happens:

At the very back behind the I-plate - blue/white and white/blue are connected.

Then just behind the cover: View media item 66710Outside cable`s orange/white is crimped to inside`s green/white
Outside cable`s white/orange is crimped to inside`s white/green
Outside cable`s green/white is free (not connected to anything)
Outside cable`s white/green is free
(as before - outside`s blue/white and white/blue is connected behind the I-plate)

Does that all sound good and right? is the crimping normal?
If it sounds right or awful, either way (whoever set it up) it has worked ok for years.
However since I have moved the 40 metres of unnecessary cable, it works less well - in particular the internet is noticeably much slower. When I plug into the NTE5 test socket, it works fine, so the issue would be on my side.
My main objective is changing this CW1308 cable on my side of the master socket. This will involve crimping though - which makes me wonder if it should be re-crimped or done a better way.

If you can advise it would be wonderful......

FYI
Conversely - the inside cable (running to the extension socket inside)
has:
Inside`s orange/white is connected to pin 3
Inside`s white/orange is free
Inside`s green/white crimped to outside`s orange/white
Inside`s white/green crimped to outside`s white/orange
Inside`s blue/white is connected to pin 2
Inside`s white/blue is free

 

[plugwash]

So first off: where does BT`s property end and from where I am legally allowed to fix - this is the set up: in a small utility cabinet at the front of house (where the gas and elect metres are also) there is an old brown box:

View media item 66708
The white CW1308 cable comes out of the top and travels 5 metres to the back of the BT NTE5 Master socket.
Is it my side of the brown box or my side of the NTE5 master socket where my responsibility starts?

The NTE5 is supposed to be the demarcation point between BT* wiring and customer wiring.

Next questions: this white cable from the brown box to the NTE5, when I look closely at the non-connected ends, its not copper (assuming copper can`t be silver/grey metal colour) - so what would it be and should I change it (if it is not BT`s property)??

I presume the cable is BT CW1308 cable. II belive the core material is tinned copper.

Then: Looking at the brown box photo here, regardless of if its BT`s property or not, it just looks too much like a botch job, its very untidy. Am I right or could this be considered good work by BT?

It does look kinda untity but then phone wiring often does, especially if it's been messed with a few times over the years. Lots of thin wires and very often spare unconnected wires just hanging arround in the box.

Now the nitty gritty - you can see on the photo the brown box has:
1 - white/orange
2 - orange/white
3 - white/blue
4 - blue white

Can you see which wires in the incoming black cable connect to the wires in the white cable going out to the NTE5?

At the very back behind the I-plate - blue/white and white/blue are connected.

This is normal.

Outside cable`s orange/white is crimped to inside`s green/white
Outside cable`s white/orange is crimped to inside`s white/green

I would guess that at some point in the past the property had a second phone line installed and that when that second phone line was installed the BT engineer used the spare pair in the existing extension wiring to carry the second phone line. I don't know if using spare pairs in existing extension wiring to carry a second phone line like this is an officially approved way of doing things but it's both quick and easy for the BT guy to do and less disruptive for the customer than running new wiring so BT engineers do (or at least did) it.

My main objective is changing this CW1308 cable on my side of the master socket. This will involve crimping though - which makes me wonder if it should be re-crimped or done a better way.

As above I strongly suspect that the crimped through cables talked about above related to a second phone line that no longer exists and can therefore be left disconnected.

"Jelly crimps" are heavilly used for joining wires by BT* engineers. They have the advantages of being insulated, at least somewhat waterproof and provide a quick and reliable means of joining single core telephone wires. The main disadvantage of them is they can only be used once and every time something is changed they have to be cut off making the wires shorter.

FYI
Conversely - the inside cable (running to the extension socket inside)
has:
Inside`s orange/white is connected to pin 3
Inside`s white/orange is free
Inside`s green/white crimped to outside`s orange/white
Inside`s white/green crimped to outside`s white/orange
Inside`s blue/white is connected to pin 2
Inside`s white/blue is free

[/quote]
This doesn't sound like it can work. I would think that "inside's" white/blue has probably fallen out of terminal 5.

What is the wiring at the extension socket?

* Strictly speaking it's "openreach" nowadays

 

[hosh]

Plugwash

Thank you that is very helpful and insightful.

I have a photo of the extension socket wiring - View media item 66803

Its two circuit:
Circuit 1 -
2- blue/white
3- orange/white

Circuit 2 -
2 - green/white
3 - white/green

This makes more sense now:
We use circuit 1 (yes the slightly broken slot) - there is no connection on circuit 2 (which goes to crimps, so you were right about that).

Following it would make sense for me to switch the extension socket arrangement between circuits one and two.

Last weekend I opened the main socket (not changing any wires, consciously anyway) and something stopped working - so currently I can only get a connection through the test socket. Possibly (or likely) something fell out when I opened the socket, the wiring on my side, not BT`s?

Two last questions then:

Which CW1308 cable is better for our current phone and adsl needs - the tinned copper or the copper looking copper?

and

In shortening the line distance from main socket to extension from 40m to 10m (8m actually), the CW1308 cable (and an Ethernet coming back out from router) go along the top of skirting that a) is generally 10cm above the plumbing which carries the central heating water, and b) passes under one radiator. There will be more heat from the radiator logically, but the whole run will be warm. Will this likely cause problems?

Many many thanks again

 

[arkie]

View media item 66710
In this photo looks like 1 wire has fallen out 2,5 need to be the same blue pair and orange bell wire should be removed and same on Ext C1 it's not good for internet.

 

[plugwash]

Plugwash

Thank you that is very helpful and insightful.

I have a photo of the extension socket wiring - View media item 66803

Its two circuit:
Circuit 1 -
2- blue/white
3- orange/white

Circuit 2 -
2 - green/white
3 - white/green

Umm your description doesn't seem to match your photo.

Your photo shows

Circuit 1 -
2- blue/white
3- orange/white
5 - white/blue

Circuit 2 -
2 - green/white
5 - white/green

Anyway the socket in your photo looks like it was originally a two line master socket and has been modified by someone to convert circuit 1 into an extension socket by removing the ring capacitor.

This makes more sense now:
We use circuit 1 (yes the slightly broken slot) - there is no connection on circuit 2 (which goes to crimps, so you were right about that).

Following it would make sense for me to switch the extension socket arrangement between circuits one and two.
[/quote]
Personally unless I thought I was actually going to need a second phone line I'd just fit a new single extension socket and leave the green wires disconnected.

Also to get back to your original question about improving broadband speeds in a system with separate filters at each phone it is best to only connect terminals 2 and 5 between the master socket and extensions and leave the ringer terminal (terminal 3) disconnected.

Last weekend I opened the main socket (not changing any wires, consciously anyway) and something stopped working - so currently I can only get a connection through the test socket. Possibly (or likely) something fell out when I opened the socket, the wiring on my side, not BT`s?

Indeed, it's pretty clear that the white/blue wire has fallen out of terminal 5.

[/quote]
Which CW1308 cable is better for our current phone and adsl needs - the tinned copper or the copper looking copper?
[/quote]
Probablly isn't going to make much difference. The main advantage of tinned copper is it's less prone to oxidisation if left exposed but it isn't really an issue with IDC connectors because the wire isn't left bare for any length of time..


[/quote]
In shortening the line distance from main socket to extension from 40m to 10m (8m actually), the CW1308 cable (and an Ethernet coming back out from router) go along the top of skirting that a) is generally 10cm above the plumbing which carries the central heating water, and b) passes under one radiator. There will be more heat from the radiator logically, but the whole run will be warm. Will this likely cause problems?
[/quote]
Shouldn't be a problem.