Texecom config query - entry/exit and guard access

[trickadero]

I've just had a new Premier Elite professionally installed and I've a query about how they've set it up. They insist it's right, but I'd like a second opinion.

The hall has a PIR and the front door a contact sensor. The keypad is in the hall below the hall PIR.

Arm mode is timed exit. Front door is entry/exit 1 and hall PIR is entry/exit 2. Part arm (e.g. bedtime) does not change these PIRs and just omits the landing PIR.

The manual suggests to me that the arm mode should be entry/exit. The front door is correct on entry/exit 1, but should have the guard attribute set for part arm. The hall PIR should be set to guard access on full arm with the entry/exit attribute set for part arm.

I can see what they've done is essentially the same result, but it it best practice? Perhaps it makes no difference other than with the way they've set it up the front door won't immediately alarm if tripped on a part set? What are the relative + or - of either config?

I openly admit to not being an expert, all I've done is read the manual, but this is niggling me!

Thanks in advance

 

[pete01]

Hall pir, entry/exit full and part

Door contact, entry/exit full set and guard on part unless someone else could come in with a key when your asleep.

 

[trickadero]

Hall pir, entry/exit full and part

Door contact, entry/exit full set and guard on part unless someone else could come in with a key when your asleep.

Thanks Pete,

Arm mode timed?

Reassuring, but why do you favour that config over the alternative I suggested? Am I suggesting nonsense?

 

[pete01]

Thanks Pete,

Arm mode timed?

Reassuring, but why do you favour that config over the alternative I suggested? Am I suggesting nonsense?

No not nonsense, have it set whichever way you want/like it.

 

[secureiam]

Firstly the arming mode should be entry exit not timed (timed is a work around if there is door contact., although some folk have it timed and if it isn't a big issue for bells only systems)

Secondly the hall way pir would normally be set to guard access, so it behaves as a guard zone if the system is full set and the entry hasn't been started and during part set it would behave as E/E.

Without seeing your layout its hard to say if the installer has definitely done it wrong, but so many alarms aren't done properly, that is usually because the installer has either no idea, following existing functionality or customer requests.

E/E arming mode has to see exit door go open then close and the alarm should set about 8 seconds later when the exit settle time has expired.

 

[trickadero]

Firstly the arming mode should be entry exit not timed (timed is a work around if there is door contact., although some folk have it timed and if it isn't a big issue for bells only systems)

Secondly the hall way pir would normally be set to guard access, so it behaves as a guard zone if the system is full set and the entry hasn't been started and during part set it would behave as E/E.

Without seeing your layout its hard to say if the installer has definitely done it wrong, but so many alarms aren't done properly, that is usually because the installer has either no idea, following existing functionality or customer requests.

E/E arming mode has to see exit door go open then close and the alarm should set about 8 seconds later when the exit settle time has expired.

Installer is ssaib and texecom authorised. It's a bell only system. They replaced an old texecom system, but added the front door contact.

Do I need to set entry/exit attribute on the hall PIR to make it entry/exit on part? Your msg implies it might be auto if guard access on full?

Would the alarm fault if the door was already open when the system was armed e.g. system didn't see it open and close, but just close?

 

[Handymanjo]

Front door should be entry/exit (final door) with Hall pir guard access. Don't know why he's used entry/exit 2.
If the door was not opened and then closed then alarm would not set when using entry/exit, as the correct setting function has not been carried out correctly.

 

[secureiam]

just change the zone from e/e to guard access against the hallway pir job done. Each zone type has its one set of default functionality.

it doesn't make sense that an ssaib installer would do this, maybe they were a subbie, as its bells only doesn't make a great deal of difference out of interest can you pm me the company just interested and dont see the need to make it public. Also an SSAIB company have provided the engineers code, as you need the engineers code to change the programming.

I think the authorised is a tad misleading, Texecom like other manufacturers dont actually get each installer in a company to pass a test as such.

 

[trickadero]

I've got the engineer code. They had a lot of trouble getting the smart com working (four visits) so I got it off them so I could fiddle. I think the smart com issues were as a result of initially trying to join it to a subnet for which the gateway was 192.168.2.1 (same IP as you initially use to connect to the smart com when directing it to a SSID to use). I think it got it's knickers in a twist and no amount of fiddling would untwist them! I essentially removed/completely reset it and started again from scratch on a network without conflict. Seems good now.

I quizzed both the original install engineer and the supervisor about the config as they both ended up visiting, but as I said they were satisfied the config was correct.

Should I also change the arm mode to entry/exit? If I do this, what happens if the arm is initiated when the front door is already open? This would happen quite frequently when leaving the house with family and small kids. Obviously I can try this out, but get the impression you lot would know off the top of your head

 

[sparkymarka]

Timed exit is not an issue …BUT entry exit 2 is , this is normally used when you need a longer entry time when coming in from a different entry point , it should be guard access …

 

[Handymanjo]

Having access to the engineers code will now invalidate the certification of your system. You now have the ability to make changes to the programming which could now possibly change the grade of the system which the installation company had certificated to.

 

[secureiam]

I cant speak specifically for your installation if they believe that the hallway PIR is correctly setup.

Then there would have to be another entry / exit point that triggers the hallway PIR first and not the front door or another door contact on that entry door.

You should limit the e/e points.

Did they explain why it was correct and why your thinking was incorrect?

Four visits to set up a smartcom seems a little strange, that said about two weeks ago I had a an issue, just redid one step and it was back online (already tried it twice) but connected via a switch then an ethernet over mains to the router so wasn't a big issue.

If you still think its wrong contact the SSAIB and or Texecom.

 

[secureiam]

Timed exit or entry exit arming modes wont make a big difference wrt to a bells only system.

A timed exit works in that the time expires and the system attempts to arm 8 seconds later the system arms, whether your in the building or not and no sensors are currently active.

E/E arms 8 seconds after the door has been closed so technically everyone should be out of the building, ie opened door and closed it behind them. The reason why it should be this method is so that you are less likely to create a false alarm due to someone in the building (you can always have someone HOME ALONE though).

 

[trickadero]

Thanks all for your comments and wealth of knowledge shared. Very much appreciated.

Installer didn't explain why they'd set the hall up as entry/exit in any convincing way, just something about setting the primary zone type to cover full/part arm rather than using the zone attributes to alter. There's no other entry/exit other than the front door.

I'll set the hall as guard access and do some testing. I'll leave the arming mode as timed for now and ponder that some more.

I didn't even realise I was supposed to get a certificate for the install so that's news to me. I didn't request one, one hasn't been offered and perhaps can't be now I have the engineers code (which I had also stated I wanted during the quote and went unchallenged), but on balance I'd prefer complete control over the system and not being reliant on someone else so am OK with. I think I could have DIY installed, but I haven't the time and wanted the assurance of competence given by SSAIB accreditation.

 

[secureiam]

Bells only probably not, if it was graded then it should definitely be certified, SSAIB terms do not necessarily have to satisfied with a bells only system, although good practice you thought it should be.

just something about setting the primary zone type to cover full/part arm rather than using the zone attributes to alter

Find this a tad unreal, but given that guard access as a zone type doesn't need changing as in its native default programming it will allow it to behave correctly in full and part set modes based on a keypad in the hallway after entering with an e/e door contact for part set and full set alike.

wonder who it is that is ssaib registered and think that is the right way.