The Wickes Kitchen Quote Process

[curium]

Hi

I'm in the market for a kitchen and after much trawling around, our pocket and convenience means that we have a choice between Wickes and B&Q.

Wickes do seem to have the edge on the quality of the kitchens. The backboards of the wall units sound reassuringly thicker than the B&Q equivalent when you knock on them (for what that's worth, in our present kitchen the door hinges and the drawer fronts are what have failed, not the backboards).
The Wickes kitchen hinges do seem better quality. They give a nice smooth, silent closing action. They are made by Blum.

The B&Q kitchens seem pretty equal on quality except for the hinges on the display units which were Salice hinges with a separate piston dampener which wasn't completely effective.

My main concern is that the Wickes design consultant prepared us a quote which is making us feel uneasy. It is cheaper than the B&Q quote but it could end up costing us more.

The problems with Wickes are:

• No prices on any of the kitchens displayed in the store.
• No prices on the small selection of handles and taps displayed in store.
• There are no door/drawer handles on the quote. When we queried this the sales person told us that handles were included in the price of the kitchen. We stated that we had seen handles on another kitchen in the store which we would prefer. She answered that we could buy those handles and then return the handles that came with the kitchen for a refund! Why the extra work?
• The install price is just for the construction and install of the kitchen and worktop with a sink and tap plumbed in - they have a guideprice leaflet for addtional work such as the plumbing in of a dishwasher, removal of old kitchen, tiling etc., but this would have to be agreed with and paid directly to the installer. What if the installer quoted us a price higher than the guideprices given by Wickes? We then have to find someone else to do the bit of the job their installer isn't doing or pay him his price!

This last point is where B&Q have an advantage since they state that "...the price we quote is the price you pay!.

Is the above behaviour normal practice for Wickes or is our saleperson trying too hard to get the sale by not including things in the quote which we will have to pay direct to the installer to get a finished kitchen, thus pushing up the final cost by an unknown amount?

 

[joinerjohn]

FWIW, by all means purchase your new kitchen from either of the sheds, but get an independent kitchen fitter to quote for the installation. B&Q and Wickes (to a certain extent) will charge you top dollar for the installation, but only pay their fitters a fraction of that price.
A friend of mine got a quote from B&Q . The kitchen units and appliances were around £3500, but fitting costs brought the total price up to almost £6000. Out of the fitting costs, the fitter would have been paid around £1000 (so that's another £1000+ for B&Q on top of the cost of the units)

 

[curium]

FWIW, by all means purchase your new kitchen from either of the sheds, but get an independent kitchen fitter to quote for the installation. B&Q and Wickes (to a certain extent) will charge you top dollar for the installation, but only pay their fitters a fraction of that price.
A friend of mine got a quote from B&Q . The kitchen units and appliances were around £3500, but fitting costs brought the total price up to almost £6000. Out of the fitting costs, the fitter would have been paid around £1000 (so that's another £1000+ for B&Q on top of the cost of the units)

I would rather use an independent tradesman but too many of them will take your money and leave you with a poor job. Without a personal recommendation, for a project this big, I need the reassurance that a big vendor gives.
Even if B&Q subcontract I've paid them for the job so the buck stops with them if I'm unhappy.

 

[WoodYouLike]

I need the reassurance that a big vendor gives.

Come again? Reassurance is one thing, ACTUAL assurance - read warranty - from a big vendor?

And as for

but too many of them will take your money and leave you with a poor job

no doubt this is a kind of "once bitten, twice shy" statement, but there are plenty of independent tradesmen out there who will do a very decent job and give you:
* better value for money than big vendor subscontractors
* guarantee their own work

Rant over.

 

[curium]

I take your point. I'm sure there are many good tradesmen but there is nothing to distinguish the good ones from the poor ones so without a personal recommendation from someone I trust I'm not prepared to go that route.

I had a tradesmen redecorate our bathroom (remove fitting, install new fittings, tile floor to ceiling). The shower leaked he said it wasn't leaking when he fitted it. Then he wouldn't answer my phone calls. I had to pay someone else to fix that fault. Six months later the grout was cracking and floor tiles were rocking. I found out that the corgi (now gas safe) and NICEIC badges he had on his paperwork were fake. These organisations weren't interested in pursuing him so now I know that these organisations do not give any guarantee of quality as there are no penalties for misuse of their logos. Rated People wouldn't publish my complaint, despite the false claims to be accredited by corgi and NICEIC, and I was left with no option but to go through the small claims court.

So I repeat my statement that without a personal recommendation, picking an independent tradesman is a lottery.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Wish we - traders - could sometimes state the same: without any personal recommendation picking a customer is a lottery.

Don't take me wrong here, not meaning you perse, but in general. Think there are as many dodgy clients out there as there are dodgy traders. You can get personal recommendations, always a very good practise. How about us?

Ask both Wickes and B&Q to bring you in contact with existing clients and see if that brings you any leads to decent traders/subcontractors.

 

[joinerjohn]

Have to agree WYL. There are lots of unscrupulous customers out there, ready to try and rip off unsuspecting tradespeople. I know a few people I'd never work for. One even boasts about getting jobs done for next to nothing by complaining about the finished job or downright refusing to pay them.

 

[foxhole]

Wickes and B&Q use independant kitchen fitters, [been asked if I want jobs by both when I have purchased kitchen parts] You only have to Google complaints about there installation to see there is no guarantee of a good job.

 

[curium]

Wickes and B&Q use independant kitchen fitters, [been asked if I want jobs by both when I have purchased kitchen parts] You only have to Google complaints about there installation to see there is no guarantee of a good job.

I understand this but it's a lot easier to pursue Wickes/B&Q then a man with a van and a mobile phone.

 

[WoodYouLike]

I understand this but it's a lot easier to pursue Wickes/B&Q then a man with a van and a mobile phone.

Now I'm really getting interested to hear in what type of work you yourself are employed.

 

[joinerjohn]

A mate of mine used to install kitchens and bedrooms for MFI.. We all know what happened there. He ended up losing thousands of pounds in payments MFI should have made to him. They were even giving him jobs right up to the day they went into administration. So there's no guarantee you'd be able to chase any of the big sheds

 

[curium]

A mate of mine used to install kitchens and bedrooms for MFI.. We all know what happened there. He ended up losing thousands of pounds in payments MFI should have made to him. They were even giving him jobs right up to the day they went into administration. So there's no guarantee you'd be able to chase any of the big sheds

This is why you pay with a credit card even when you have the cash

 

[WoodYouLike]

This is why you pay with a credit card even when you have the cash

And who do you think picks up the bill for this insurance your credit card gives you? Honest retailers etc who are willing to accept credit cards and pay your credit card company a fee for the pleasure.

 

[curium]

This is why you pay with a credit card even when you have the cash

And who do you think picks up the bill for this insurance your credit card gives you? Honest retailers etc who are willing to accept credit cards and pay your credit card company a fee for the pleasure.

Wood You Like, I don't mean to malign independant traders. I apologise if that's what you feel I am doing.

It is a fact that anyone can call themselves a plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc and there's nothing to spot the fraudsters until afterwards. TV programs are full of unscrupulous tradesmen. Personally, I think decent tradesmen need to insist that their industry is licenced and that their industry bodies aggressively pursue rogue traders so that customers can have confidence in licenced tradesmen being competant in their trade.

Good trademen are worth their weight in gold. I have a plumber and a plasterer who have been recommended to me in the past and I always go back to them for any additional work because I know the quality of their work. Where I don't have a personal recommendation I have to consider using bigger organisations who will give me some 'come back'. Many independent tradesmen don't accept credit cards, probably due to the administration costs but perhaps tradesmen who did (for big jobs) would gain additional business from customers who would gain added confidence that the credit card company is sharing some of the risk of employing someone whose business card/website is all you have to go on.

 

[joinerjohn]

Personally, I think decent tradesmen need to insist that their industry is licensed and that their industry bodies aggressively pursue rogue traders so that customers can have confidence in licensed tradesmen being competent in their trade..

Problem with that though. Look up the IKBBI on the internet. You'll find they were set up by a couple of ex MFI directors (and we all know how much MFI cared for their customers) They push themselves as the industry leaders etc, yet anyone willing to pay the fees to join, doesn't have to show competence at what they do.
Industry or trade licensing is and always will be a con. Honest good tradesmen have no need to join any sort of trade group (unless they are working on Gas or electrics) Even within Gassafe there are good and bad registered installers.
Take Niceic, one of the trade bodies overseeing electrical work. Do some research and find out what they actually do when things go wrong for a customer.. Simple answer,, very little. These trade associations are only after the tradesmans money at the end of the day. You remember Corgi?? Did you know that Corgi, were actually a registered charity, not a business?
I could join the Guild of Master Craftsmen ,,, just as long as I have the requisite payment to join them. Heck, you could join if you so wish, and call yourself a builder, joiner, plumber etc etc. So you see licensing any trade won't automatically guarantee a brilliant job at the end of the day.
PS,, just a thought,,,, How far do you take it?? Perhaps the government should step in and insist on all building work being done by the appropriate tradesmen who all have to be members of some trade body? Where would that lead to?? Want to put some shelves up next weekend?? "Ahh you need a registered joiner to do that sir." Have a leaking tap in your bathroom? "Ahh you need a registered plumber to change that 10p circle of rubber."
Where would it all end???